Arsenalist

The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Preseason’s almost done and Mitchell’s still worried about our wings

Posted by Arsenalist on October 21, 2008

Good Tuesday morning to you. I love Tuesday’s, its still got some of that Monday stench but overall its a nice little fella, gets you going towards hump day. Its also a day when you can get cheap chicken making for a great opportunity for a dinner-date at the local dollar theater. Aah, gotta love Tuesdays.

Sam Mitchell’s making a lot of sense this morning as he calls for our 2’s and 3’s (Parker and Moon really) to ‘step up’ and not rely on Bosh and O’Neal to do the work. Nothing could be truer and Mitchell’s fearing that the ‘concentrated’ talent everybody’s talking about is stuck in threes player with the rest of them being pylons. If you think about it we’re somewhat following the Celtics model from last year – JO = KG, Bosh = Pierce and Calderon = Allen. Now, now, I know you’re thinking that Arse has inhaled too much wet paint but I’ll concede that our talent is weaker and have different types of players than theirs but the model is the same. Get three good to great players and surround them with a cast that works. It worked for Boston last year and Colangelo’s hoping that somehow two of Hassan Adams, Will Solomon, Jamario Moon, Joey Graham, Roko Ukic and even Ralph Sampson become the James Posey and Kendrick Perkins from last year’s Celtics. It’s true, look it up.

Anthony Parker’s thinking the Raptors will approach tonight’s game “like a regular-season game”. Tune in to this one if possible, I think we’ll finally get a look at what October 31st against Philadelphia might look like. Hopefully both teams give their starters 30-35 minutes and make this a good run. I want to have something positive to remember leading up the regular season and if they lay an egg tonight this blog could get really ugly, really fast. I know its preseason but the Nuggets will provide a test that needs to be passed if the team wants to go into opening night with some sort of confidence. Hopefully Sam Mitchell doesn’t yank Bosh and O’Neal under the preseaon mantra and openly tries to win this game rather than pretend to be a conservative coach which he’s sooo not.

There’s some Moon hate talk by Dave Feshcuk who’s rightfully pointing out that Moon’s been absolutely miserable this preseason and it might be to the fact “Moon flitted away his summer doing little to improve his game, specifically his erratic jump shot.” Although Moon claims otherwise, his on-court performances have been the worst since he joined the Raptors and more importantly his jump shot seems scarcely better. I thought the Raptors should’ve kept a close eye on Moon’s summer program just like they did with Bargnani. If he’s going to be your starting small forward and log more minutes than Bargnani, it only makes sense, no? But as things stand he’s done nothing to make the defense respect him more than last year. Says Moon:

“Overall, it seems like I’m playing some of the worst basketball I’ve played in a long time. I’m glad it’s pre-season.”

Yes, you little knob. It is preseason but that doesn’t mean all your troubles will go away come October 31st. I’m telling you people, we should be very concerned about this position, much, much more than last year. At least last year he played with some enthusiasm and hustle, so far this year he looks like a guy lost in a grocery store looking for aisle 145. Dave also reports that O’Neal is still wearing Pacer underwear!! Nice job D, can you also please report the brand of his jockstrap and whether he’s a zipper or button fly kind of guy?

There’s a basketball round table at TSN where Doug Smith, Eric Koreen, Tim Chisolm (my boy!) and Jack Armstrong are debating questions like “What impact will the new players have on this team?”. Basically they’re talking about what we’ve been talking about all summer long. It just sounds a lot more credible when coming out of their mouths. Once again Chisolm’s got the best comments so I’ll post one of them here:

Offensively, he and Bosh can wreak havoc on opposing front lines if they can find a way to mesh their respective games (a work-in-progress thus far in preseason). While both can play in the high and low post, with O’Neal preferring to play with his back-to-the-basket and Bosh preferring to face-up, the two still have to develop the kind of chemistry that allows both players remain effective without compromising each other. While it is easy to say that Bosh is the main cog, the whole dynamic of the way the team plays offense down-low is going to change with J.O. and it remains to be seen how exactly that change will manifest in Bosh’s game and in his ability to remain effective. Two savvy basketball players will probably figure it out, but how long that takes could be the storyline to watch early in the season.

There’s a game against the Nuggets tonight…in Edmonton. It’s part of promoting the Raptors across Canada but let’s not kid ourselves its just a meaningless preseason game. If you really want to promote the Raptors across Canada, play a couple regular season games in Vancouver or Calgary and then you’ll truly be recognized for your efforts. I know that might not sit well with you regular season ticket holders but think of the greater good it will do. The Bills finally realized this after decades and the Raptors shouldn’t wait that long and strike while the metal is hot.

Bosh is injecting O’Neal with a love of the game and has given the poor 21 million dollar man a reason to live. It’s really quite heart-warming, O’Neal was dying in Indiana, he had no food, no desire to play basketball and by all accounts was living in a garbage can feeding off of Arby’s waste. Then came the trade and O’Neal stripped away his rags, got rid of his mullet and took an ox-cart to Toronto and started saying things like:

“Coming to Toronto was a mental rehab for me. I was checked out in Indiana. There was too much going on away from basketball. I was telling Chris after the game that I didn’t like playing basketball. The Pacers organization was thinking more about their image problem than the game. And when you mentally check out, physically you check out. We get paid a lot of money to perform at a high level and, mentally, you never want to check out. That’s inexcusable. That was an issue and I addressed it by coming here”

Poor guy, how did he even manage to survive these years. Hopefully nobody ever in this world is burdened by what he’s gone through in his life. Send donations to the Raptors Foundation to facilitate O’Neal’s rehab. Please.

29 Responses to “Preseason’s almost done and Mitchell’s still worried about our wings”

  1. khandor said

    It sounds like a broken record when I say repeatedly that Moon’s main problem right now is the fact that he is being played out of position, in the NBA, when the Raptors use him as their #3 … but only because of the constant chirping by others who keep pointing out, first and foremost, that Jamario is playing so poorly right now, e.g. not driving to the basket more and seemingly shooting his jumper at a lower than acceptable standar of efficiency.

    Using players properly in the NBA is not Rocket Science.

    HINT: If said player isn’t performing up to the standard which is acceptable at that position in the NBA … keeping in mind that there are different ways to play the same spot effectively … then he is probably not THAT type of player and SHOULD be moved to a different spot on the floor which is a better fit for his individual skill set and psycho-emotional make-up.

    In general, ‘forcing round pegs into square holes is a recipe for disaster in this League‘ and a big no-no, long term.

    ===================

    The fact that the Raptors basketball braintrust might actually have thought this group of players,

    i.e. Hassan Adams, Will Solomon, Jamario Moon, Joey Graham, Roko Ukic and even Ralph Sampson

    bears any resemblance, whatsoever, to the likes of

    Rajon Rondo, Kendrick Perkins, James Posey, Big Baby Davis, Brian Scalabrine, Scott Pollard, Leon Powe, Tony Allen, Gabe Pruitt, PJ Brown and Sam Cassell

    is completely hilarious …

    in a similar way as ever thinking that a comparison between

    I) Jermaine O’Neal – Kevin Garnett [two totally different players]

    II) Chris Bosh – Paul Pierce [two totally different players]

    III) Jose Calderon – Ray Allen [two totally different players]

    has a snowball’s chance in h*ll of ever being close to an accurate assessment of these respective players’ actual talent levels.

    If this is what the Raptors’ braintrust WAS ACTUALLY going for this season THEN the Raptors faithful SHOULD be even more concerned about the future status of this team, as a legitimate up-and-comer, down-the-road.

    ===================

    ——————-
    re: It just sounds a lot more credible when coming out of their mouths.
    ——————-

    IMO, this statement couldn’t possibly be further from the truth. :-)

    ===================

    Without intending to insult real life ‘street people’ everywhere … Your image of Jermaine O’Neal with an ox-cart is worthy of a ROTFLOLKAS.

  2. Arsenalist said

    I agree that there’s a big differential in “type of player” and talent between the Celtics and Raptors but I think the model is the same although it is quite optimistic.

    Khandor, I agree Moon needs to be moved to a different spot – the bench! Putting him at the off-guard will result in more misery and lower production. Maybe his defense could be better since SG’s are usually less athletic than SF (not entirely true but close enough) and would give him less trouble but I don’t think it would improve his offensive game at all. It’s not like he could take advantage of his size or quickness…

  3. khandor said

    Arsenalist,

    ————————————
    re: Putting him at the off-guard will result in more misery and lower production. Maybe his defense could be better since SG’s are usually less athletic than SF (not entirely true but close enough) and would give him less trouble but I don’t think it would improve his offensive game at all. It’s not like he could take advantage of his size or quickness…
    ————————————

    1. The cold, harsh reality is that you simply do not know this to be true.

    2. The shots which are produced for a #2 are very different than those produced for a #3, in the NBA.

    3. When you say that, “It’s not like could take advantage of his size or quickness …”, you are making a serious mistake.

    4. Playing Moon at either the #2 or #4 positions, in the NBA, is exactly where he CAN, in fact, take advantage of his size and quickness, relative to the other players he will be facing at those respective positions.

  4. Arsenalist said

    Explain to me why he’s a better off-guard than a small forward….

  5. Paps said

    Moon is not a very good (at this point in his career): ISO player, ball handler and jump shooter. Which are quality’s you need at the 2 and 3 to be a successful guard in this league.

  6. khandor said

    Playing the #2:

    i) Moon’s REBOUNDING production would go up. He is a superior rebounder, at this position.

    ii) If he is run off screens, as a designated shooter … it will give Moon the opportunity to catch the ball going toward the basket, i.e. when his checker ‘locks & trails’ him around this specific defensive action. This, in turn, will give him more opportunities to ‘catch & drive’ into the lane on a number of occasions per game when he curls against this type of defense. Conversely, when he ‘fades’ against the type of defense that sees his checker ‘cheat up the ball side’ of these screens, the space that will then be created ‘away from the direction of the pass’ will generate better shot opportunities for a player like Moon – via the ‘catch, high foot reverse pivot & shoot/sweep & go’ series of offensive manoeuvres – in sharp contrast to the type of shot attempts he is getting right now, as a non-designated shooter at the #3 position.

    If you play Moon beside players like Joey Graham & Jose Calderon there is simply no reason he could not develop into an adequate ‘Rip Hamilton type’ of mover/mid-range scorer on offense. A ‘poor man’s version’, no doubt; but a satisfactory edition, nonetheless.

    iii) At 6-8, Moon should be able to either (a) get his shot off unfettered by his individual checker more frequently playing against the other #2’s in the NBA, or (b) isolate them in the Post and take advantage of his length to create higher percentage shots for himself or his teammates.

    iv) Defensively, Moon’s size and athleticism would allow him to check #2’s effectively in this League, like Rip Hamilton does, as they are generally less physically imposing than the #3’s in the NBA. Defensively, Moon is a ‘finesse’ player, not a physical/Power guy.

    v) With increased opportunities to ‘pass over’ smaller checkers, Moon would become a much better ‘delivery man’, in a half-court offensive system, than he is at the #3-spot when he is being checked by a larger player who is more difficult to pass ‘around’ on the perimeter.

    etc., etc., etc., …

  7. Arsenalist said

    i) Moon’s REBOUNDING production would go up. He is a superior rebounder, at this position.

    This is a myth. If you put Jermaine O’Neal at the off-guard his rebounding numbers will be comparable to what they were if he played C. You’re assuming the defense wouldn’t adjust and that the other two guard wouldn’t box Moon out for whatever reason.

    If he is run off screens, as a designated shooter … it will give Moon the opportunity to catch the ball going toward the basket, i.e. when his checker ‘locks & trails’ him around this specific defensive action.

    If he doesn’t run off screen snow why would he run off screens at the SG. The checker will NEVER trail Jamario Moon and will go under the screen every time because he knows Moon can’t shoot.

    iii) At 6-8, Moon should be able to either (a) get his shot off unfettered by his individual checker more frequently playing against the other #2’s in the NBA, or (b) isolate them in the Post and take advantage of his length to create higher percentage shots

    He can’t shoot. I can’t stress that enough, just because he’s being guarded by somebody an inch shorter than him does not make his shot any easier to get off or have a higher chance of going in. Remember, he can’t shoot. As for his post-game, I can count on one hand how many times he’s successfully executed a post-move.

    iv) Defensively, Moon’s size and athleticism would allow him to check #2’s effectively in this League

    This I agree with.

  8. khandor said

    Arsenalist,

    Your reply to (i) is simply incorrect.

    It’s a game of relative quickness, at the position played, in comparison to one’s opponent. JO sliding to the #2 spot is nothing like JM shifting there.

    Your reply to (ii) is simply incorrect.

    Moon doesn’t run off screens right now, in part, because there are no designated plays being called for him, as the primary player intended to shoot the ball coming off the screens which the Raptors are setting.

    You can critique his shooting ability all you want but it’s incorrect to claim that ‘he’s being given the opportunity to run off screens right now, in the Raptors’ offensive scheme as their #2, and he isn’t using these opportunities effectively when the fact is he is not in this situation at present.

    If the checker never ‘locks & trails’ vs Moon, then … as I said in what I wrote before … the designated shots which Moon would be getting as a result, off the ‘fade, catch, high foot reverse pivot’ series of offensive maneuvers, is well suited to his individual skill set right now, i.e. mid-range jumpers which are uncontested or short drives away from the direction of the pass, leading to quick rim attacks or lay-off interior passes vs helping/rotating Bigs.

    re: he can’t shoot

    I’d really encourage you to break down further his current shot attempts. IMO, what you will find is that he can indeed shoot the ball with a satisfactory degree of proficiency from certain spots on the floor and using specific offensive maneuvers, while not being a proficient shooter overall when he’s allowed/forced (?) to jack up shots willy nilly, in the Raptors’ offensive scheme that’s not designed to get him specific shots from specific spots on the floor.

    re: his post game

    You can also count on one hand … the number of times he’s had specific plays run for him that call for him to be isolated in the Post, in the first place.

    The fact is … IMO, you have no idea just how effective he might be if given the chance to POST-UP vs the other #2’s in the NBA, because he hasn’t ever been given this chance.

    [Conversely, I have seen with my own eyes just how effective he can be when the Raptors cut Jamario into the post, initially, running their ‘Shuffle’ Series. Even, as is, with Moon not at the #2-spot, it’s a simple Flex & Reverse Action which they SHOULD be running far more frequently for Jamario than they’re doing right now, given their preference to use JK & AP, instead, in this way. It’s a simple matter of choices, and far too frequently the Raptors make the wrong ones.]

    I’m glad you agree with (iv). :-)

  9. Hotshot said

    Khandor, there is a reason why opponants leave Moon open, the scouting report is out on Moon and out of the 5 guys who are on the floor he is the guy the opposite opponants wants him to shoot.

    Moon has average quickness at the SF position at best ( he hardly is able to shake off opponants and that is partially the reason why he doesn’t get near the basket for a dunk as often as he should, Graham has the same problem but at least he is able to muscle his way in there) but if you put him against a SG, that SG will be much quicker and in his face all the time. Moon shot release is prehaps the slowest release of any Raptor, not since Marcus Camby have I not seen slower shot release.

    Part of Moon’s strength on defence was his shoot blocking abilities where he on occassions with his long arms able to get a piece of the ball when the opponant shooting forward gets closer to the basket. With a SG opponant he will quite easily shake Moon off for a shot because Moon does not defend well on the perimeter (how many times last season have we seen Mitchell yell on Moon because he left a SF open 18 feet from the basket for an easy shoot).

    So far this preseason, Jason Kapono SG switch has been disasterous for similar reasons as to why Moon swtich to SG will be disasterous. Jason Kapono is a slow poke but he hangs around the perimeter for his 3 point shot WHEN HE IS OPEN. At the SG position he can’t stay open long enough for the often quicker SG who is able to put a hand in his face and thus render him useless. JK defending the SG position was also laughable because he can’t guard any SG in the league who are all quicker then him and majority of the SF in the league are also quicker then him. I give you exhibit A:

    Someone like Delfino was the kind of player who I think can successfuly play the 1, 2 and 3 spot but alas he was gone and now we have a problem. Losing versatile Delfino was a major blow to a now thinner bench with unversatile reserves. Hindsight is 20-20 but have we not sign Kapono we might have had enough money to sign Delfino and we wouldn’t have worried so much about the 1,2 and 3 spot and be better off.

  10. PapiJulio said

    I still think Moon is a bit scared. His body took less punishment in the other leagues. Now that Moon is in the NBA he gets HAMMERED because nobody in the NBA wants to be posterized by a chump that can jump high. Last year when he tried a couple dunks he got HAMMERED! You can’t just dunk on established NBA guys. They’ll get pissed and HAMMER you next time you try. I can’t remember who HAMMERED him last season, but it happened a couple times. It seems like Moon started shooting more after that. When we played the Sixers this pre-season Elton Brand sent Moon a huge message not to come back to the rim when he HAMMERED him. Moon is addicted to the Chant of “Moooooooon!!!!” but I think he doesn’t want to end his career with a crash landing!

  11. Hotshot said

    ————————————
    re: I can’t remember who HAMMERED him last season, but it happened a couple times.

    ————————————

    Swift was one the guys,

    and pretty much anybody on Atlanta’s roster.

  12. khandor said

    Hotshot,

    There is more than one way to defend at the #2 position, in the NBA … and, IMO, Moon has the requisite COMBINATION of quickness + SIZE & Agility to disrupt a lot of #2’s in this League.

    It’s okay with me if you don’t see Moon in this way at the #2 … few other people do as well.

    ——————-

    Just because Moon is being left open on the perimeter now, given how the Raptors are using him improperly, this is not to say that when he’s placed in different locations on the court, more commonly associated with a #2, than a #3, those opponents would still be choosing to leave him unchecked.

    It’s a real life game of chess, my friend, and the man who moves his pieces around the best, to utilize their strengths while minimizing their weaknesses … is the one who emerges victorious most frequently, relative to the talent level at his disposal.

    In a figurative sense, right now, Moon is the equivalent of a Knight being used as a Bishop.

    Put him on a different square, however … legally … and you might be amazed at the real havoc he could wreck, on an opponent that’s lacking a similar degree of diversity at its own #2 position.

    As well … even if the Raptors wanted Jamario NOT to shoot the ball at all, they could easily turn him into a ‘delivery man’, as their #2, with Jose Calderon [as their #1] being designated for the majority of the perimeter jumpshot attempts with the 1st Unit.

    As I’ve said before … it’s an integrated/coordinated approach to offensive basketball which would see the Raptors make better use of their assets than they’re doing at present, involving the re-alignment of several pieces to the puzzle this season, e.g. Parker, Moon, Graham, Kapono, O’Neal, and Humphries.

  13. Raps Fan said

    even if a player chases moon around a pick, i can’t see him even coming close to a richard hamilton in terms of shooting effectiveness.

    in fact, i would venture to say that there are only a handful of players who can curl off a screen, catch, shoot and hit the ball with a high enough degree of success to have that play called for them.

    if smitch ever called that play for moon, everyone in toronto would join me in pulling our hair out while experiencing an aneurysm.

    i’d much rather see joey graham have that play called for him. but i agree he should be coming off the bench, and should be moved to the 2.

  14. khandor said

    Raps Fan,

    Are you watching this game vs Denver right now?

    There have been a tonne of ‘red alerts’, thus far …

    e.g. Whoever thinks that Bargnani has improved his post-up game … is delusional; a mediocre WC team like Denver has more QUALITY DEPTH on its roster than the Raptors do right now

    considering that the Nuggets are playing without Iverson, K-Mart, Kleiza and A-Carter tonight.

    End of 1st Quarter – Denver 24 Toronto 17

  15. khandor said

    Raps Fan,

    ——————————
    re: i’d much rather see joey graham have that play called for him. but i agree he should be coming off the bench, and should be moved to the 2.
    ——————————

    From a technical standpoint … Joey G doesn’t have the type of agility it takes to execute this type of movement in the half-court; while Jamario Moon does. Moon is a lithe and wirey NBA athlete; Graham, in contrast, is a thick and power-based one. Moon is physically similar to Rip; Graham is not.

    ——————————

    An entire ACC filled with fans experiencing aneuryisms would not be a pretty site. :-(

  16. khandor said

    oops …

    should read as “aneurysms”.

    Thanks.

  17. khandor said

    Even with a slew of back-ups on the floor right now … the athletic quickness disparity between these two teams is startling. The Nuggets are at least a step quicker and stronger than the Raptors are at several different positions on the floor, at any given point in time.

  18. khandor said

    Punctuated emphatically by a thunderous Nene SLAM over Jamario Moon in the final seconds of the 1st Half:

    Denver 58 Toronto 47

    Things are far from right, at this moment, in Raptorville.

    Btw … all hands are on-board tonight for the Dinos, except for Will Solomon.

  19. khandor said

    Half-time Show … and you can just tell that Matt Devlin, who is new to the good ship Raptor this season, having seen plenty of top notch NBA action through the years while working for a different team, is slowly becoming alarmed at the readily apparent deficiencies this team is beginning to show on a consistent basis during these pre-season games.

    In general … it’s not a good situation when the new announcer can see clearly what the general fan base refuses to acknowledge.

    This 2nd half … is going to be interesting … as will the media reports that hit the airwaves tomorrow.

  20. khandor said

    Calderon, Parker-A, Moon, Humphries & Bosh start the 2nd Half

    vs

    Cleaves, Jones-D, Melo, HowarJu & Nene.

  21. nunya said

    Anyone who compares the Craptors to Boston in ANY way should be fired. This team is lottery bound. The denial is unfucking believable.
    Hate to break it to Raptor lovers (I used to be one) but Rajon Rondo is going to kick Calderon’s ass. Is some fucktard going to compare Moon to Posey fuck’s sake??? NO ONE ON THIS TEAM CAN DO WHAT PAUL PIERCE CAN DO…NO ONE…Bosh is a nice player at the BACK of a team of Superstars…he still gets pushed around by fucking rookies.
    This team’s success 3 years ago was obviously a fluke and it has regressed since then and will continue to regress. Last year it was mediocre, this year it is flat out BAD. Half the team does not even belong in the NBA…
    Fucktards keep trying to spin the fucking trade as a positive…if you do, you are a fucking moron…using up a third of your fucking salary for someone who probably won’t be on the floor much and when he is redundant, is fucking RETARDED.

    There has been a problem with the scouting and coaching staff for a long time… anyone responsible for assembling this bunch of fucking weaklings should be shot.

  22. khandor said

    oops …

    should read as, “Howard-Ju”.

    Thanks.

  23. khandor said

    nunya,

    ——————-
    re: There has been a problem with the scouting and coaching staff for a long time… anyone responsible for assembling this bunch of fucking weaklings should be shot.
    ——————-

    You are going to have to look further up the food chain than that in order to assign proper responsiblity for the current state of this team … which is going to be competitive in the EC this year but, in reality, be well below the top dogs in the NBA.

    ——————-

    Joey G. in now for Jamario Moon … with a nice follow-up dunk, hopefully to change the momentum in this game which is going south, fast, for the Raptors.

    Denver 70 Toronto 60 … 7:00 left in the 3rd Quarter.

  24. khandor said

    Ah, oh …

    Word from the Raptors communications department that Jermaine O’Neal will not be returning this evening … on account of a SORE RIGHT LEG.

    After playing even with the Nuggets so far this quarter … both teams are about to go to their bench with 4 minutes left in the 3rd … Denver 74, Toronto 64.

    Ruben Patterson and Chris Anderson in for Denver; Bargnani in for Toronto.

    Smush Parker & JR Smith in for Denver; Kapono in for Toronto.

    Looks as though Jose might be going the rest of the way for the Raptors tonight. He’s had a big 3rd Quarter, thus far, keeping is team in the game.

    Ukic in for Calderon, at the 00:01 mark of the 3rd Quarter.

    Denver 80, Toronto 71 … starting the final frame.

  25. Dave said

    Does anyone know what the story is with Nathan Jawai?

    Is he training with the team?

  26. khandor said

    Ukic, Adams, Kapono, Hump & Bargnani open the 4th

    vs

    Jones-D, Smith-JR, Patterson, Anderson-C & Fazekas …

    against a motley crew, like this, the Raptors might still be able to come back in this game.

    Following back-to-back threes by JK & Bargnani … Parker re-enters for Kapono who, it seems, was popped in the nose.

    Kapono gets patched up quickly and re-enters for Parker-A:

    Denver 87 Toronto 79

    with 8:57 left in the 4th.

    ==============================

    At this point … with this collection of players on the floor … the result of this game is pretty much meangingless.

  27. Arsenalist said

    Dave, they’re waiting to do proper tests on his heart…

  28. cheerleader said

    “Tune in to this one if possible, I think we’ll finally get a look at what October 31st against Philadelphia might look like. ”

    October 31 game is against Golden State
    Philly game away is on 29th

    :)

  29. Dave said

    Thanks Arsenalist … these Jawai’ tests sure are taking a long time to get done.

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