Arsenalist

The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Jamario Moon needs to make a jumper

Posted by Arsenalist on August 30, 2008

This is from a couple days ago but the Pacers did an interview with TJ Ford where he talks about a bunch of things. It was hard to focus because of the interviewer. The segment is quite boring but he does mention how in Toronto he got into techno music. Good luck to him, hopefully he has a career year where he only has 4 extremely crappy games all year long. If his head is sewed on straight he could’ve been an All-Star next year but I actually think Jim O’Brien is a worse coach than Sam Mitchell so the odds aren’t good. If I’m O’Brien I let TJ run loose, excite some fans and have some fun. There’s no pressure on that team and they should be fun to watch.

Jermaine O’Neal made Hoops World’s list of NBA Nice Guys. It made my heart melt until I got to the end of the list and saw Alonzo Mourning’s name on it. Kinda ruined it for me.

Yesterday Eric Smith had this inside info on Bargnani:

By all indications, things are going well for Andrea. I spoke to a few folks within the Raptors and they seem happy with the progress Bargnani has made. Personally, I haven’t had a chance to see Andrea since the end of the season but it sounds like he may have put on a couple of pounds as well. Jermaine O’Neal had a lot of great things to say about Bargnani following their workouts together in Las Vegas. The two hooked up in Nevada when Andrea was down there for the Pete Newell big man camp. He also showed his commitment to the Raptors and to this upcoming season by deciding to NOT play with the Italian national team this summer. Instead, he’s been following a strict workout program that is/was coordinated by and supervised by the Raptors basketball department.

I know its not much and there are no eye-witness reports here but it looks like Bargnani’s been following his off-season regiment in a committed fashion. Him not suiting up for Italy does say a lot given the nationalism of the European players and how much they enjoy playing for their country. In a pic I posted a while back he did look like he had gained a few pounds. Getting stronger and gaining weight is one of the first steps in developing a low-post presence and I’m hoping Bargnani can use this new weight to throw some people around in the block. I’ll gladly accept a decrease in his jump shots and an increase in his post-ups.

Our roster doesn’t have much depth on it this year and its imperative we got the most bang for the buck out of every player – especially the starting five – if we want to compete for home-court advantage. The guy that’s not getting mentioned much this summer is Jamario Moon who last I heard was representing the Raptors out west in Edmonton and playing hoops in someone’s driveway. We obviously expect improvement from Bargnani next year but if Moon even repeats the feats of last season, it’ll be considered a disappointing year. He must get better and make up for the lack of a true SF signing. It’s asking a lot.

I’ve accepted that he’s not going to be a player that consistently takes it to the rim even when the opportunity is there so I’ve switched expectation gears. If he just drains the 15-18 footer with dead-eye consistency, it’ll open up things for us. Last year we got angry when he started taking those jumpers, this year I’m hoping he takes them and makes them. If Bargnani’s off-season regiment involved working on footwork, getting stronger and developing post-moves, Moon’s should simply involve launching 1000 jumpers a day.

If you want to catch a glimpse of Bryan Colangelo and Steve Nash you should go to this event. I know I’m reaching in these posts but there’s nothing going on at all.

Grab the feed for Raptors talk all year long.

22 Responses to “Jamario Moon needs to make a jumper”

  1. FAQ said

    Strange jump shot form from both Moon and Bargs. Their arm-hand mechanics are seemingly flawed. Moon’s shooting arm positioning is weird and it forces his wrist to go cockeyed, or something like that.

    Bargnani is a pure 3-point lob-shooter. When he attempts a mid-range jumper, he seems to throw the ball on a flat trajectory to the back of the rim. If it catches the back of the rim it either drops or pops off hard. He was not able to modulate his jump shot for different distances because he couldn’t adjust trajectories.

    Also, his 3-point lob doesn’t require much more than him aligning his feet to the basket and letting go with little elevation and only pumping his knees slightly … while his actual jump shot gets messed up because he has to jump and shoot … and all he did was awkwardly jump and then release fast by throwing the ball against the basket. I hope he learns or even has the ability to acquire a properly modulated hand release for his mid-range jump shot … because if he doesn’t, he’s fried.

    Bargs seems to have the brains to learn, but he is still a project … 2 more seasons ….

  2. Raps Fan said

    gotta disagree with you a bit. if the raptors season hinges on moon taking and making jumpers….wow, i’m going to lose more years off my life.

    if he jacks 5 more jumkpers then drives…again, years off my life.

    i hope he just plays defense, rebounds, and shoots 50% from the field (mostly drives).

  3. […] – The Arsenalist […]

  4. fluxland said

    “we” got angry when he started taking those jumper? I never got angry. : )

    I don’t know how you expect a guy to get better unless he does it during actual games.

    There are so many players that are amazing in practice, but when the lights, camera and crowd come on, they suck (basket)balls.

    I am not saying he should be ONLY be taking jumpers, but to burn the guy for taking them (even at what you may interpret as the worst possible times) IMO is not helping him in any way.

    Great work this summer Arse!! Great work, Sir!

  5. fluxland said

    Raps Fan… I had more questions for BC in that post. LOL.. think you may find some amusing!

  6. FAQ said

    Raps Fan Says: “…wow, i’m going to lose more years off my life…again, years off my life. i hope ….

    Your “life” and “hope” may be significant to you, but sharing your feeelings is not helpful to understanding the Raptor’s future. What do you think of Moon’s jump shot mechanics ??
    ………..

    fluxland Says:“I don’t know how you expect a guy to get better unless he does it during actual games.”

    Didn’t Bargnani also try to do that and has been mercilessly attacked and dissed ??

  7. fluxland said

    You make the argument for Bargs all the time and we know what the issue is. 3 years 40 different positions.. i think he was popcorn guy and took my ticket stub before a game last year too… so I’m not sure how you can develop anything when they got you on parking lot duty half the time. But to say he needs 2 more seasons is a little much, IMO. Some very significant strides need to be made this year for his not to be crucified by every Raptor fan in sight.. xcept maybe yourself and me

    re: mechanics… one form cannot fit all…ie shawn marion… do what works for you… rick berry did the banana free throw..how many guys do that?

  8. FAQ said

    fluxland ^^^^^^…. re: mechanics and Moon’s jumpshot. Jeez, didn’t you notice the splayed elbow jumpshot with sidespin too ..???!!!

    Moon and Bargs threw some real clankers at the basket attempting their flawed jumpshot form. They were sick, i.e. like in ill … particularly Moon’s 3-point jump shots and Bargs mid-range jumpshots.

    Okay, Moon may not be able to change it at 27 y.o…. but Bargs had better learn how to control the trajectory of his mid-range jump shots if he intends to take them on the dribble into the basket … completely different form from 3-point soft lob shots…!!!!

    If I were the Raptor’s shooting guru, I would be yelling at these guys in no uncertain terms.

  9. fluxland said

    FAQ

    I hear ya and agree about the “aim for the back of the rim” ugliness … I am not a 7 footer so I am not sure how the basket looks from up there. Not that the flat trajectory should be used but I don’t recall too many 7 footers tossing up rainbows. Also, Andrea was making those 3 point buckets in the playoffs, both years, when we needed them. I guess I just prefer letting guys do what works for them. (I can only imagine the 1000s of ppl that have tried to help Shay fix his FT shooting.. and none have really helped.)

    I am sure the coaching staff has noticed, much like ourselves. Guess we will have to wait and see if Andrea benefited from that camp and what exactly he has been working on over the summer… just like the rest of the Raps.

  10. FAQ said

    fluxland ^^^^ … Oday, but somebody must have told Bargs after the first season to expand his game to slashing, pull-up jump shooting, posting up with a skyhook or something .. and of course playing better interior defense … a big change for a 7-footer who’s claim to fame is a soft-lob 3-pointer stretch (not jump) shot.

    For a 7-footer to make an instantaneous change to his game is not realistic, and to criticize Bargs for attempting new things is also not realistic. That makes him a project, and based on my feel for the game and empathy for Bargs, I say he needs two more seasons to develop a new game. You can’t compare the game and development of a 7-footer to a 6-6 SG or SF .. that would not only be ludicrous, it would be outright stupid … and there are plenty who are displaying their stupidity when commenting on Bargs play.

    I don’t defend picking Bargnani at #1 which was great for him financially, but I wonder what BC and Gherardini were thinking about putting a very young Bargs into this situation without mentoring development and expecting him to produce for the fans. Somebody screwed up, because the NBA only tolerates NBA-ready rookies … because the coaches only play for wins to keep their job. The fact that BC and the coaching staff are being patient with Bargs and asking him to expand his game in his second season is commendable, but to expect him to do it on his own is less than intelligent.

    Short, fat, turdy, munching, demanding, tribal honking fans can’t understand the biomechanical development of very tall bball players.

  11. fluxland said

    FAQ ..

    agree with second paragraph.

    3rd – This has been beat to death on here but.. I have no issues with him being drafted where he was.
    At the time, NO ONE could have predicted the few players drafted after him were going to as good. And def. not as soon as they were. Bargs already had pro experience. Also, I think drafting him involved more then just his potential and skill. It was was also a marketing thing and let’s face it, the Raps as an organization were/are the best fit for him. Lastly, BC wanted to make sure someone else doesn’t pick him up and then we are all sitting here beating up BC for not taking him.

    I don’t think BC expected fans to react the way they did. I guess people are getting impatient in RaptorLand. And understandably so.. yet they are, for the most part, aiming their frustration at the players (and the wrong ones for that matter) instead of the organization (not for picking him but for not developing him the right way.. as you said) And we can agree that everyone will have their opinion about how to develop someone. I don’t think you can replace actual game experience with any behind the scenes work. I think they should have put him out there earlier. But the delicate balance of developing and winning now to satisfy the fans is always in action.

    It’s always a damned if you do and damned if don’t situation because there is always going to be someone or a group out there that doesn’t agree with what you are doing. And I am sure had the playoff results been different people wouldn’t even be pulling out the “let’s criticize the shit out of everyone and everything because we didn’t get what we wanted” card (or the “someone screwed up”).
    So easy to stand on the outside and do that when you got nothing riding on making decisions (like say your livelihood), not to mention when you don’t have a fricking clue what is going on behind closed doors and what the boss is saying he wants. Ultimately, they all answer to someone.. and it sure as heck ain’t you, me or any of the self professed experts (read bloggers). Everyone thinks they have the answer… but they don’t even know what the questions (demands from “the man”) are.

    Last statement… I think you need to lower your expectation of the entire fan base. Not everyone may have the knowledge and interest in basketball as you do. To burn them for that (just like they burn Bargs) is unjust and unfair… and worst makes you look like a total “fill in the blank”. You are not winning over anyone with degrading them. But like I have said to someone else around here before… don’t let me knock your style .. do what you gotta do playa!

  12. khandor said

    re: At the time, NO ONE could have predicted the few players drafted after him were going to as good. And def. not as soon as they were.

    No one?

    Are you sure about that? :-)

    ===================

    Flux,

    Unlike most others here, you have already seen me in action, during a Live Blogging Event, hosted by a 3rd party … with the courage to post ALL the comments made by the different participants.

    You know first-hand some of what I can do.

    ===================

    Prior to the 2006 Draft … it was a generally accepted fact that Brandon Roy was the ‘most NBA-ready’ prospect.

    At several different points, especially early in the 2005-2006 NCAA season, it was a generally accepted fact that Rudy Gay was the ‘best NBA-athlete’ in that year’s draft class.

    It was a reach when Bargnani was picked No. 1 by the Raptors.

    IMO … those who earn their livelihood based on their ability to correctly assess the ceiling of a Draft Prospect should have been able to see that AB was not going to develop down-the-road as the best player from the 2006 class.

    ===================

    Personally, I would not have set my sights early on Bargnani, and then I would have traded down to a lower spot in the Lottery to select either Gay or Roy … whichever one was there at the time.

    That is what I said at the time … and what I still believe today.

    ===================

    Bargnani was NOT a project.

    Bargnani was a reach.

    There’s a big difference … from the POV of someone who earns his livelihood (in part) from assessing accurately who can do what proficiently on a basketball court.

  13. fluxland said

    Khandor,

    not arguing that the players drafted after Bargs were more NBA ready or better NBA athletes. One could argue that they were those things simply by being brought up in an NBA style environment from a very young age while Bargs was brought up in a Eurobasket world. (another discussion, I know, but the fact remains there are profound fundamental differences in how players are developed from a young age in the two continents)

    That said, it would stand to reason that AB was not going to develop as quickly or as well as the other players.
    (language, culture and other factors not included… as players that are moving to Europe are going to find out soon)

    Again, as stated in #11, the AB pick may have, IMO, been about more then just “at the time” skill and potential instant impact on the floor.

    also

    Did we need players at the positions that the players we skipper over play?
    DId the majority of the NBA GMs believe AB, with his high and skill level have a higher ceiling then the other players? ( I do recall more then a few gushing and salivating during his rookie year and AB was in ROY discussions)
    Did we need a legit 7 footer? Do most teams draft size over skill?
    Had we drafted the other players how easy would have to move the excess player at that position?
    Did we wanna pass on AB, let another team mold him, while we misused one of the other players and then burn the management for making two mistakes? (which is what is essentially going on now)

    If drafting decisions were made on basketball skill only, without any consideration of any other factors.. then the argument could be made that AB is a bust and completely idiotic call.

    A reach, yes, but understandably so from this POV.

    : ) Yes, this corner is acutely aware of your abilities!

    And ultimately hindsight is 20/20. And yes I know, had the other players turned out to be complete bums, it still wouldn’t change how things stood prior to the draft. : )

  14. khandor said

    Average-to-Poor GM’s draft a player based on a specific need at a certain position.

    Good-to-great GM’s draft the best player available … regardless of the position he plays or the level of redundancy that specific player presents.

    Good-Great players can always be moved in exchange for other comparable assets, via trade, down-the-road.

    Average-to-Poor players cannot always be moved in exchange for high calibre NBA players down-the-road.

    ===================

    Given the increased practice:game ratios which are employed by European Club Teams, the fact that their players do not have to go to school while simultaneously honing their skills as a young professional basketball player, and the opportunity to train and play every day on the same team with other elite level MEN (rather than youth) players … in theory/practice? … there is no legit reason for a TOP NOTCH Draft Pick who is European-trained to lag behind his American-trained counterpart.

    (e.g. Usain Bolt is every bit as well-trained as Walter Dix … and Daniello Gallinari, Dirk Nowitzki and Arvydas Sabonis (etc.) are/were every bit as well-prepared to become an eventual superstar in the NBA as were Lebron James, Kevin Garnett or Kobe Bryant, at a similar age)

    It’s about ‘real deal’ basketball talent … not the specific period of time it takes to learn a new language or a new position, or both.

  15. fluxland said

    I am not trying to argue what the “right” line of thinking or approach to drafting is/may be. Just my assumptions on what the thought process may have been during that selection.

    What one man may see as average or poor play, another may see as a valuable asset (Kwame “butter hands” Brown in Detroit… and I am not saying he is either or)

    ——-

    yes… “eventual” superstar.. I do believe Dirk stated AB will be much better then he is. How much does the becoming of a superstar or solid contributor have to do with being with the right team and being developed properly? I do remember JO rotting on the bench in Portland for quite some time before exploding in Indiana.
    I am willing to wait one more year to see what Bargs does before making the curtain call.

    Regardless of the amount of time spent on the floor or not having to go to school.. one is only going to be as good as his competition. We are talking about two different beasts IMO, and regardless of how much time he has spent playing against men over in Europe nothing could have prepared him for the speed, agility, athleticism of the NBA. Coaching methods and styles.. pressures from the media (bball is NOTHING in Europe compared to dozens of other sports that are played here) etc… also come into play IMO

    However great the talent…it needs to be cared for properly and there is no way of predicting how one, again regardless of talent, will react in a completely new and foreign environment. We are talking about a young man here.. a boy in essence.. who may or may not have the mental fortitude to adjust properly.

    I simply have to disagree about the difference between honing your skills here and over there. Different objectives and schools of thought. Because, let’s face it, more the likely had he been raised here there wouldn’t be any need for him to attend “big man” school this summer. In theory what you are saying is true… in practice, IMO, much different story

    Then again … there is this… which may prove otherwise (regarding mental fortitude), while shedding some light about what ppl are/were thinking when it comes to AB, with some quotes from BC himself regarding Bargs. (article has been altered since original pub.. not sure in which way)

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=espnmag/bargnani

  16. fluxland said

    Anthony Parker was the MJ over there…. he’s a nobody over here. What does this tell us? Many players have gone overseas to have excellent career and they couldn’t make an NBA team here. How does one explain that, if their talent remains unchanged?

  17. khandor said

    Flux,

    The point you’re making with AP … actually supports the point I’m making re: Bargnani.

    i.e. Given his level of experience, at his age, when he played in the Euroleague … Bargnani, who failed to set the world on fire there, SHOULD NOT have been thought of as a potential superstar in the NBA, unlike young men named Beasley, Gallinari, Oden, Durant, Roy, Gay, Lebron, Nowitzki, Kobe, Garnett, or Sabonis.

    (i) The ‘language’ of hoops is universal … and, (ii) the very best players in the world, throughout the history of the game, have never been deterred by a change in position, or a change in ‘location’.

    It’s a matter of talent … nothing more and nothing less. :-)

  18. fluxland said

    “there is no legit reason for a TOP NOTCH Draft Pick who is European-trained to lag behind his American-trained counterpart.”

    This led me to believe that you hold both leagues in the same regard when it came to talent level, coaching, development strategies etc. The point I was trying to make with AP (perhaps a poor one) is that it’s simply doesn’t hold water (not in my pool). The road pre-NBA players take to the NBA, “pro” leagues over there and colleges or developmental leagues here, do not provide them with the same tools prior to entering the NBA.

    I’m not sure where the school of thought comes from that a player drafted at no 1 has to be a superstar? This is what I am getting from you. Again, this must be the “draft the best player available” thinking . But then we get into the differences of what one considers best and the line of thinking when approaching the draft.

    The language may be universal.. yet people speak it with different dialects. : )

    Did you hold the same opinion of AB after his rookie season? Because a lot of people are burning him for having a sub par season after his rookie year.

    Also, Kobe, LeBron, KG… they don’t fit in the same basket as the rest of those guys.

  19. khandor said

    When you look at the names on this list …

    http://www.nba.com/history/top_picks.html

    you can count on one hand the number of players who were taken with the No. 1 (overall) pick in the NBA Draft, failed to establish their spot in the League-wide Totem Pole EARLY-ON IN THEIR RESPECTIVE CAREERS … and, then, still managed to recover and rise to a place of prominence on the League-wide Depth Chart used to list perennial All-Stars (aka, the best players in the League).

    In general, it’s a complete fallacy to suggest that a ‘Great’ NBA talent NEEDS a long gestation period in oder to establish himself in the NBA … cause this simply hasn’t been the case throughout the history of this League.

    ‘Terrific’ players who are picked later in the Draft, usually establish their actual prominence in the League relatively early-on … as do the ‘great’ players who are picked at the top of the draft.

    Players who take a long time to develop, in the NBA, almost never (ever) reach a point of league-wide DOMINANCE … e.g. Jermaine O’Neal … although they can still become highly accomplished players, in their own right.

    When you pick a player No. 1 (overall) it SHOULD be your hope that he can eventually establish himself (early-on, if at all) as a DOMINANT player in the League. If not … trading down in the draft to acquire a greater number of assets overall is almost always the more prudent/effective means of attack, for a team trying to build a championship contender.

  20. khandor said

    re: This led me to believe that you hold both leagues in the same regard when it came to talent level, coaching, development strategies etc.
    ===================================

    Actually … it’s not quite that I hold these two routes to the NBA as being of equal calibre.

    Rather … it’s my belief that a Super-talent does not care one way or the other in which specific environment it receives its training … e.g. Usain Bolt vs Walter Dix (and the rest of the world to boot).

    Talent is as talent does … when it meets with plain, old-fashioned, hard work and opportunity.

    In general, the old talent-identification bromide has never been more true than it is today, as far as ‘where’ a great player NEEDS to come from in order to make it big in the NBA:

    “If you’re really good … they WILL find you.”

    … and, I would add …

    you WILL be able to adapt relatively quickly to the demands of what it takes to SUCCEED big-time at the highest level of competition in the world.

    In part … that’s exactly what REAL-DEAL Talent does.

    It succeeds … NO MATTER WHAT. :-)

  21. fluxland said

    I hear you… I just don’t think you are hearing me. : ) OR I am failing to communicate adequately, in which case, egg on my face.

  22. fluxland said

    And the book on AB has not been written yet… as with many of our discussions, time will only tell.

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