Expiring contracts, TJ Ford and more
Posted by Arsenalist on May 29, 2008
Sam Smiths’ reporting that the Raptors are actively looking to package TJ Ford along with some expiring contracts in a trade that would also involve the Heat’s #2 pick. The report also states that Calderon will be the starting PG come next year and the Raptors are hoping a team can look past TJ Ford’s spinal injuries and take him on. This is also confirmed by the Oregonian which says Bryan Colangelo has put the “untouchable” label on Calderon. Its nothing that we couldn’t have already guessed but seeing this rumour so often and in so many different places, you would have to believe that something’s brewing.
Given the controversy and instability of last season the Raptors would be insane to start next season with both point guards and other teams know that. We have to trade TJ Ford and teams will bargain hard with Colangelo who will be forced to give up those valuable expiring contracts if he hopes to dump Ford. TJ Ford’s early-season injury has turned him from a commodity to a liability when it comes to trade value and nobody’s exactly banging on our door for him. It’s a little unfortunate that we’ll probably end up shipping out Rasho who’s massive salary comes off the books next summer. The whole TJ Ford to Miami speculation can be completely shattered if Chicago selects Michael Beasley leaving Derrick Rose open to join the PG-desperate Heat. More smoke here.
Then there are the Knicks who are looking for a point guard and if its not going to happen through the draft for them, they’re likely to be looking at the Raptors and Ford or towards Memphis for one of Mike Conley Jr. or Kyle Lowry. The Grizzlies are in a similar situation as the Raptors except one can argue that neither of their point guards are at the level of Ford and Calderon. Even the Grizzlies executives aren’t sure which one is better.
How much value do you put on expiring contracts? Are they overrated for us? If you look at the free agent list of next summer there aren’t exactly any great names you can go after. There’s Elton Brand but we already have a PF. The restricted rookie contracts that are up for bidding include Chris Paul and Deron Williams but they’re not coming to Toronto anytime soon. Then its the likes of Andrew Bynum and Andrew Bogut but after that it gets very thin. Its probably a better idea to acquire a proven solid player through a trade than to play Russian Roulette next summer and enter a bidding war that if you lose will break the eggs that are in your one basket. And if you believe some, playing in Toronto doesn’t help.
Reducing your salary is never a bad thing but in our case we’re doing it because we want to be able to pay Jose Calderon, Chris Bosh and hopefully Andrea Bargnani big money, not to target any juicy free agents. That’s not to say we can’t target second-tier players such as Corey Maggette or Josh Childress this summer, both of which can be had in the 7-9M range. It might even make more sense to trade our expiring contracts this summer to sign some key pieces and worry about the cap anew next summer. Just some thoughts.
A really weird story this one, China has stopped broadcasting NBA playoff games as they aren’t in the spirit and atmosphere of the country after the earthquake.
If Michael Jordan thinks you’re doing a good job as GM, is that a good thing?
Arsenalist 
Raps Fan said
dude, way to keep the articles flowing…i’ve got nothing right now!
Sam said
I echo the comments about keeping up the blog in the off-season. Daily posts are pretty impressive.
Alright, I’ve got my trade hat on again. What do people think about TJ and Rasho’s expiring contract for Jermaine O’Neil? Depending on Larry Legend’s view of Bargs, I think you could also do TJ + Bargs + Parker’s expiring contract and keep Rasho as injury insurance for O’Neil. There’s risk with O’Neil who may be older than his years after so many seasons in Indy but if he was healthy he’s an upgrade on Rasho or Bargs (obviously), a solid defensive and rebounding presence and could work with Bosh.
Raps Fan said
seeing as o’neil is the offensive black hole, and bosh is black hole light, i would have to veto that one sam. i like what he brings on the boards and defensively, but the offense would stagnate something fierce.
khandor said
Sam,
I agree with Raps Fan, Jermaine O’Neal is not the way to fill the spot beside Bosh.
Sam said
Raps Fan, The trade has been vetoed. I’ve notified Colangelo via blackberry. I haven’t seen O’Neil play in ages so I have no conception of his offensive deficiencies but getting a more traditional centre strikes me as a decent idea even if we keep Bargs. We obviously need the rebounding and defense and letting Bargs come off the bench while he works on his back to the basket and defensive shortcomings might salvage him in the long run. O’Neil’s monster contract also comes off the books in 2 years so we wouldn’t be taking the largest of risks with him.
Maybe we should be looking at TJ for Dunleavy?
khandor said
… but packaging Ford with another current roster member is a viable option to add another solid player to the Raptors’ squad for next season and beyond.
Y said
heres one if CHI drafts Beasley
Hughes + s&t Duhon + Noah + Nocioni
for
Rasho + Parker + Ford
Chi takes it for a startin PG, AP for leadership & hes from CHI, Rashos exp. contract
Tor takes it for a good perimeter defender whos contract expires in time to resign CB4, a backup PG, a scrappy interior defender with winning mentality & character, and a quality slashing 3 (something Moons not capable of doin)
The salaries match, this deal improves both teams but all of that depends on whether CHI drafts beasley or rose.
,V..
Crank said
JO?? The guy has chronic injury issues and plays the same position as Bosh. And no, he can’t play center and sticking him in there will not work. I realize we need inside scoring but its got to come from a 2/3 who can score in the paint, not by adding a PF.
What would acquiring JO say about Bargnani’s future with the Raps?
Sam – getting JO will stunt Bargnani’s growth, Andrea needs to be playing 30mpg and it doesn’t matter how bad/well he plays, we should stick him out there and find out what we have in this guy.
RaptorsFan said
Seriously? I haven’t seen JO play since the last time the Pacers were in the playoffs. The guy is washed up because of injuries, I don’t see us getting him – especially when so much money and time is invested in Bargnani.
If we can some how package TJ + expiring for Miami’s 2 pick, that would be a big steal. However, whatever hype I’m hearing of this even remotely being true, I don’t see it happening. People just don’t trade away top picks unless they are getting a big player in return. Even without Rose, Beasley fills a need for Miami as well.
Probably have to be TJ OR Calderon + Bargnani + picks + expiring till Miami begins to talk.
Arsenalist said
Y, you’re practically trading half the Bulls roster for half our roster. Frankly, I prefer ours. I wouldn’t mind picking Noah but I get a feeling you give Hump some minutes and he’d be able to do the same thing he does. Granted Noah has more upside. Hughes I don’t like, there’s a reason Cleveland shipped him out. I think Nocioni is very overrated in what he can do offensively, the guy I like in that trade is Duhon who the Raptors were close to signing a couple years back. I think he can adequately play the backup PG here.
Overall though, there’s not enough incentive for either team to make the trade.
BTW, check out the pics that come up when you Google Chris Duhon:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=NBT&q=chris+duhon&btnG=Search&meta=
Y said
Arse man, i think youre forgetting how well Larry was with the wizards before, i really think he just wasnt in the right system in cle, one of the biggest problems with the raps is us not having perimeter d and not having any slashers, Larrys game should fit up here. Hump=Noah????
Cmon man!! Had noah entered the draft a year earlier he wouldve been the 1st pick instead of andrea the mouth breather. He only got better as the season went along, including a 20 rebound game against big ben!!
I think its a good time to snag him while his stock is low. Duhon is a party animal but also a good n healthy backup PG. Nocioni is a solid player whos feisty & competitive. A glue guy who hustles & does things that dont show up in the boxscore.
The purpose of this trade is mainly to get rid of TJ & AP who is only gonna get worse n actually has some trade value now. Ditto for Rasho.
BTW Forget about Maggette!! As solid of a scorer he might be, hes a liability on D.
,V..
Sam said
While I don’t have much invested in the JO idea other than as message board fodder, I question the centre vs. PF notion that Crank sets out in his post.
As Khandor has pointed out there’s an argument to be made Bosh is a 5. Tim Duncan is a 4 in a lot of people’s books. Frankly, I don’t think there’s much distinction – basically, in the NBA you want 2 or 3 big guys who play forward and their roles needn’t be more circumscribed than that. Those 2 or 3 guys can’t reproduce each others’ skills entirely but getting caught up in determining who’s the 4 and who’s the 5 seems kind of pointless. LA gets rebounding, post presence at both ends of the floor and some outside shooting from a combo of Odom, Gasol and someone else (often Turiaf eventually Bynum, sometimes Walton). Sometimes they play small and only 2 of those guys are on the floor. The fluidity between the positions isn’t just great to watch (and it is) but creates exactly the match-up problems you need, especially offensively. Getting someone like JO gives us the bruiser we lack in such an alignment. Whether he calls himself a PF or a C, who cares. The guy can rebound, and defend the paint. We need that to complement Bosh and/or Bargs ability to draw bigs out of the paint (although Bosh, thankfully, has an ok low post game). (Of course if he’s a complete ball hog then my point doesn’t apply to him)
If all we have is TJ Ford and expiring contracts, JO may be the best big banger out there. Who else would be available? Beasley? Maybe, but the more I think of Khandor’s trade to move up to the #2 pick the more I think it doesn’t offer Miami enough. After that, who’s available and what would they cost?
Arsenalist said
Y, Hughes FG percentage scares the shit out of me. I can just see defenses sagging off of him to double Bosh and tempting him to shoot. He’s a slasher and plays good defense but do you think he can fill the need for the second scorer? I don’t know man, that’s being a little too optimistic. I think if Moon drove the ball and slashed more he’d be as valuable as Hughes might be, plus Moon’s the better defender. I know I’m comparing a 2 to a 3 but same difference.
You’re probably not that far off about Noah being a top pick if he came out a year earlier but that says something about both him and Bargnani. He had a few good games but guess what, so did Bargnani (remember games against Boston/Detroit?). I do agree his stock is low but I don’t think the front-court thin Bulls are willing to give him up with it being that low and them being so vulnerable up-front. He’s going to get a lot of PT in Chicago next year and just like we’re waiting to see what we have in Bargnani, they’re waiting to see what they have in Noah. Both players aren’t going anywhere.
AP doesn’t fit with the Bulls’ youth movement, if he’s going he’s going to go to a playoff team trying to get deep into the playoffs and looking for a veteran scorer. As the articles in the post today say, we should be aiming at something higher than Larry Hughes when we’re giving up TJ + expirings. Thanks for the comment.
Y said
Truth of the matter this trade likely wouldnt happen, juss tried to spice up the trade rumors. Alt Raps had a great link this mornin talking about how immature Beasley is. As much as thyed need his inside scoring I kinda doubt that Paxson would get him.
Love the blog!!!
,V..
cuzzy said
Great work as always Arse keeping the Raptors news fresh.
No way to O’Neil, he is damaged goods.
I was reading on a Warriors site the other day that they may have some interest in Ford as well and surely there are some nice assets from G-STate. Ford and Ellis as a back court duo? Small but fast as hell.
To be honest I don’t like anything the Bulls have to offer either except for Thomas, maybe Heinrich.
Sam said
Fine, there’s universal condemnation of a JO deal so try this on for size: we need an athletic wing capable of getting to the rim and, ideally, a decent enough shooter that defences won’t just slough off him. We have expiring contracts so it would be advantageous to find a team with such a player who is looking to create cap space – a team with a large contract 2/3 who would be content to just get out from under the guy’s contract. I know that team and that player . . . we need to trade for VINCE CARTER.
Now that might go down as the most perverse deal of all time – defensible from a talent perspective but can you imagine his first home game. Would anyone show up? Would anyone cheer?
khandor said
Sam,
If what you’re looking for is a workable trade for Vince Carter, here’s one that meets the financial standards of espn’s trade checker:
Toronto sends …
to New Jersey
TJ Ford + Jason Kapono + Kris Humphries
New Jersey sends …
to Toronto
Vince Carter
to Chicago
TJ Ford
Chicago sends …
to New Jersey
Drew Gooden
Would anyone show up at the ACC for the first game Vince Carter played in Toronto, for the home team, with the following Raptors’ line-up?
STARTERS:
PG – Jose Calderon
OG – Vince Carter
SF – Jamario Moon
PF – Jorge Garbajosa
C – Chris Bosh
BACK-UPS:
PG/G – Anthony Parker
G/F – Carlos Delfino
F/PF – Joey Graham
PF/C – Andrea Bargnani
C – Rasho Nesterovic
RESERVES:
PG – Roko Ukic
PF/C – Primoz Brezec (or Maceo Baston)
Would anyone cheer?
In my opinion …
Yes, the arena would be jammed pack.
Yes, there would be a lot of people cheering.
FAQ said
I somehow think Vince would retire from bball before he would come back to Moronto.
Of course stranger things have happened and IMO:
Yes, the arena would be jammed pack.
Yes, there would be a lot of people jeering.
(.. and BC would be watching the games on tv in a mental institution.)
Sam said
That’s the supreme irony – from a purely on-court perspective Wince makes a lot of sense and Khandor’s 3-way deal or some variation on it show what we could do with what we’ve got.
One other thing, though, while most of the guys from the team Wince quit on are gone, I wonder what Bosh would think about Quitter’s return?
FAQ said
Sam Says: “One other thing, though, while most of the guys from the team Wince quit on are gone, I wonder what Bosh would think about Quitter’s return?”
By then, Bosh would not be in a Raptor uniform … believe it ..!!!
FAQ said
khandor Dream Team:
PG – Rafer Alston
SG – Vince Carter
SF – Jamario Moon
PF – Andrea Bargnani
C — Alonzo Mourning
And according to the statistics and finances, this team should sweep the league.
Arsenalist said
Haha @ 21.
Apologies for not posting today but sometimes you just feel very lazy and sleepy.
I would welcome Vince back provided he get paid weekly and we can fire him anytime. He needs incentive to play hard and a paycheck that can get canceled if he doesn’t is the only motivation that’ll work.
khandor said
Arsenalist,
Just in case you’re interested …
(for all-time)
Starters:
PG – Magic Johnson
OG – Michael Jordan
SF – Larry Bird
PF – Kevin McHale
C – Bill Russell
Bench:
Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Julius Erving, Dennis Rodman, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Rick Barry, Hakeem Olajuwon
Head Coach:
Red Auerbach
Assistant Coach:
Phil Jackson
A team which would never ever lose to any other squad assembled.
:-)
(all-time, Raptors only)
Starters:
PG – T-Mac
OG – Vince Carter
SF – Doug Christie
PF – Antonio Davis
C – Chris Bosh
Bench:
Jose Calderon, Alvin Williams, Dell Curry, Morris Peterson, Marcus Camby, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kevin Willis
Head Coach:
Brendan Malone
Assistant Coach:
Jim Todd
:-)
Siber said
I you all love!6