Arsenalist

The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Eventually the Magic were going to make their threes

Posted by Arsenalist on April 26, 2008

Orlando Magic 106, Toronto Raptors 94

The thing we feared finally happened, Orlando started hitting their threes. They were getting wide open looks for the fourth game in a row and it was only a matter of time before they started going in. That time came in the second half of Game 4 where the Magic went 7-12 from three after going 4-17 in the first half. That was the game right there. The Raptors failed to consistently match their defensive intensity from Game 3 in the second half and poor offensive games from Andrea Bargnani, Jose Calderon and Anthony Parker contributed to the sputtering offense. As much as Chris Bosh’s 39/15 are to be admired, his defense on Lewis and Howard was extremely suspect. The Raptors drop pivotal Game 4 and head back to Orlando facing a daunting task of stopping the Magic snipers.

In the pre-game post I had alluded to the advantage the Raptors might have in the Bargnani/Howard matchup and how Bargnani might have the ability to take advantage of Howard’s lack of lateral quickness to pick up some early fouls on him. Nothing remotely close to that happened as Andrea made his first jumper and after that went 0-6 with not a single shot attempt inside the paint. When you get 5 points and 2 rebounds from your starting center it’s going to be a rough night. Andrea’s offseason can’t start soon enough so he can learn some fundamentals of basketball including shooting, dribbling, footwork and decision-making.

The best Raptors defensive possession was the first one in the fourth quarter where for the first time in the game a hard, meaningful, fruitful double team was deployed followed by a quick recovery. Other than that our defense stuck to its same old template: Hedo/Lewis taking Bosh/Moon/Delfino of the dribble and drawing in Bosh/Rasho/Ford to kick out to Bogans/Evans/Lewis. That’s how they’ve won 3 games and there’s evidently nothing we can do to stop them, our defensive plan there is to hope they miss. It worked in Game 3 and almost worked in Game 2 but as the Raptors themselves will tell you that’s not a reliable defensive strategy. In addition to hitting their threes, their SFs mixed it up by attacking the paint forcing matchup nightmares for the Raptors. We looked helpless and this time there was nothing the crowd could do to make the Raptors find that defensive drive that’s been missing all season.

I’m a big fan of Chris Bosh’s intensity and hard work and without his 39/15 we’re in trouble, if you sense a ‘but’ coming you’re right. Rashard Lewis was taking him off the dribble at will and either scoring or kicking out to shooters for the swing sequence, that really hurt the Raptors. Bosh and Bargnani did an extremely poor job on Howard in the first quarter and literally never boxed him out allowing him to collect second chance points when the Magic were struggling. Bosh settling for jumpers with Jameer Nelson and Marcin Gortat on him didn’t help either. Fine, I’ll stop the Bosh criticism because for the most part he played well.

Let’s face it, for us to win tonight almost everything would’ve needed to go perfect as the Magic are the superior team. Hedo and Lewis are far superior players to Parker and Moon, Howard is a much bigger force than Bosh and Stan Van Gundy can outwit Sam Mitchell in his sleep. The only advantage we have is the point guard position and when Jameer Nelson plays that even, our chances of winning evaporate. TJ Ford’s 12/13 were much needed and his decisions on the break perfect, but once he went to the bench our offense labored with Calderon at the helm. Nobody predicted Jameer Nelson draining big fourth quarter shots but there’s no excuse for Calderon to leave him open on three straight possessions. The PG battle goes in favor of Orlando. Again.

The one technicality that I’d like to mention is the Raptors defense when there’s less than 6 seconds on the shot clock, instead of pressuring the ball and taking the shot away we encourage the offensive player to go one-on-one. I counted at least 5 instances in this game where a hard trap would’ve extinguished the Magic possession but since we allowed the player to make a one-on-one move, we ended giving up the score. The Magic deserve a lot of credit for spacing the floor, attacking the rim and playing intelligent basketball. They ended up with 18 turnovers but many of them were just results of aggressive basketball like establishing Howard inside, driving by our PGs and on the break.

Since 2 of our starters (Moon, Bargnani) gave us nothing on offense and a third starter didn’t do a damn thing till the fourth quarter (Parker), it meant that the bench needed to step up. However, only 1 man (Kapono) showed up, the other 3 key bench guys (Nesterovic, Calderon, Delfino) gave us a total of 9 points. The bench ended up scoring 21 which pales in comparison to the 41 from Game 3. Again, its hard to win when you’re getting sub-par performances from your starters and your bench.

We ran some very stagnant sets in the fourth quarter which resulted in Carlos Delfino taking two ill-advised shots and TJ Ford jacking one up. The age old problem of the Raptors being unable to score in the clutch reared its ugly head again. The nerves get a little tighter, the defense a little more aggressive and the officiating a little more loose, its situations like these where we need that elusive player that can create his own shot while setting up others, just like Hedo and Lewis. Bosh isn’t there yet and perhaps may never get there, he’s too tentative in the post and lacks a reliable finishing touch to be considered a great scorer. At least not yet. Of course it doesn’t help when Parker’s air-balling open threes set up by Bosh doubles but I’ve come to expect that of Anthony Parker. I know, its harsh.

If open threes in the second half was problem #1, rebounding was #1a. It was 42-34 in favor of the Magic who got crucial offensive rebounds in the third quarter leading to scores which kept them in the game, Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis supplying the most demoralizing ones. You got the feeling that the Raptors needed to be up 10-15 going into the fourth to have a shot at this one because of our unreliable offense and the likelihood of a Magic run. So when we were up by only 1 heading into the fourth, the writing for a loss was on the wall.

Kudos to the Magic for recognizing their mistakes from Game 3, coming out aggressive and establishing their SFs in the paint. They talked about it pre-game and executed it to perfection. I’m not sure what Chuck Swirsky and Leo Rautins’ issue with Rashard Lewis is, every time he misses a shot, they’re on his case. The guy’s killing us, how can you not see that?

The officiating in this game was horrible once again, maybe the reason the NBA used to space out games is because of a lack of good refs. Both teams had legitimate complaints throughout the game, as a Raptors fan I counted at least 4 non-calls. I’m sure the Magic had their fair share too.

Game 5 is on Monday night and its going to take something special to win that. I’m not sure the Raptors have it in them.

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35 Responses to “Eventually the Magic were going to make their threes”

  1. AltRaps said

    Crowd sucked.
    Execution sucked.
    Luck ran out.

    Jose was a huge bust, which shocks me to be honest. Jamario was back being the rookie he is. Rasho continues to turtle.

    Still, this was the first game of the series that seemed like a typical Raptor game. Just like going to a strip club: lots of anticipation going in, some great promise while there, a beautiful girl flirts with you, you think you’re the shit, and then before you know it, you are left all alone wondering what happened to little Johnny.

    We still have a chance to grab a key to the VIP…let’s see if we can get to the bar first.

  2. Pickstar said

    Just waiting to see what the off-season brings. More interested to see the fates of Mitchell and Ford.
    Bargs is god awful, I am pretty sure that even after the summer workouts, he wont improve. He doesn’t seem to have the focus or athleticism, but thats just my opinion.

    All I want is an Athletic team, filled with a bunch of guys that want to and know how to win (mainly young players), and guys that will knock the shit out of some one once in awhile to know that we are not soft.

    If we do another overhaul, it will be the second year we have changed a large chunk of our roster.

  3. Red Rebounder said

    Lewis,Turk,Bogans >> Moon,Parker,Chuckfino

    Parker has been total shit this series. He shouldn’t be the starting 2 next year, the guy takes too many quarters off to be an impact player. I want to rip my hair out every time Lewis beat Bosh to the paint, we show no resistance to anybody trying to penetrate the lane. That shit needs to end and people should think twice before driving the lane on us but we have no interior defensive threat or a shot blocking presence. What I’m trying to say is we’re soft on the inside.

    The only way we win game 5 is the Magic go ice cold from three and get lazy enough not to drive. Our players don’t have the quickness and size to stop these guys and our coaches are too dumb to devise something to make up for our players’ shortcomings.

    Fucking eh man, so much for our PG advantage. SVG’s a genius for fixing the game 3 problems. The Magic deserved it.

  4. FAQ said

    I liked the Magic’s first quarter strategy to drive on the basket, kick out and then drill the ball right back to Dwight where he has pinned Bosh under the basket. In-out-in to Dwight … wow ..!!!

    The Raptors just don’t seem to have a SG or SF who can generate a lot of consistent scoring, and this game again exposes the Rap’s weakness at those positions. When Sam put in Jose late in the 4th quarter to team up with TJ, I knew the game was lost … and Sam had nobody else on the bench he could look to for offense. When the Rap’s PG duo are both on the court, the Rap’s defense drops to near zero.

    Pathetic, eh … but we still have hope mixed with delusion for the 5th game .. after all the Raps did trash the Celtics in Boston by going crazy shooting the lights out…!!!

  5. Johnn19 said

    With all the defensive mistakes the game was still there for the Raptors @ 92-94 with 2-1/2 mins to go. Magic made some big shots Raptors did not, result Magic 12 Rap’s 2, Goodnight Rap’s, get out the golf clubs.
    A poor game by Calderon, after playing so well, maybe he was due. Definately Raptors do not have an answer for Turkoglu or Lewis and need rebounding help. BC must fix those areas in the summer thru the draft/trade or FA for Raptors to take the next step.

  6. cuzzy said

    sorry for no posts today, wordpress upgrade hell.

    How do we get Reggie Evans before Game 5? Seriously? that guy is a beast.

    The only fans who are more annoyed, frustrated and ready for a summer of fixing are those Suns fans.

    Delfino’s two missed jacks were turning points.

    Howard gets away with a lot.

    The ask the expert segment has to go. Lamest questions ever. Game 4 of the playoffs…..game 86 of the broadcast sked and they are breaking down the most 101 shit.

    Flyers won and recaptured my day! way to go boys.

    We all partying on Tuesday to celebrate the end? Clean out our fan lockers?

    see you there.

  7. Lopez said

    If I see Rashard Lewis give another pump fake and drive to the hole im gonna puke. I swear he did that at least 7 times in the game and when he wasnt doing it Turkoglu was. The Raptors played badly down the stretch but i wanna get on the refs for a second because they really didnt help. When parker got the ball of bosh’s tip with about 2 min to go, he clearly got fouled, then on the insuing possesion turkoglu clearly pushed off. Without that sequence, the raptors had this game IMHO. But this game(and series) is over and there’s no denying it, there’s no way that the we can win 3 straight against this team because we’re too inconsistent and we have head coach who thinks Andrea Bargnani is a good player.

  8. X-Temp said

    This is may have already been said before, but it seems like the Raptors are a poor man’s Orlando Magic (with the exception of our PG combo when their at their best).

    I mean look out the comparison between the line-ups…Howard is stronger/meaner than Bosh…it’s arguable that Stan V.Gundy is a better coach then Mitchell (apparently only took him one day to make adjustments for the Magic to get the better of the Raptors)…Turkoglu & Lewis are what we wish we could have at the SF & SG positions; they’re both good shooters who can knock down shots when Howard kicks back out but unlike Parker & Moon & Kapono & Delfino, these two have additional assets in that they are big enough to post-up and drive to the hoop and draw contact…and then the Magic now seem to have a decent bunch of role players in Bogans, Nelson, Dooling, that big mean bald white guy, etc…

    Maybe I’m looking at this incorrectly…What do you guys think? Are the Magic what the Raptors were supposed to be but ultimately could not be because of the skill sets we lack?

    Anyway, at least Toronto FC have won 3 in a row…TFC!!!…boom,boom,boom…TFC!!!

  9. mark said

    X-Temp – you’re not far off. For all those who want to see what a slashing swingman can do for you look no further than the Magic. We’ve surrounded our big man Bosh with a bunch of jump shooters. The Magic have surrounded their big man Howard with a bunch of jump shooters and players who can slash. As crazy as Howard’s numbers have been he’s not the reason we’re losing this series, its what Rashard and Turkoglu are doing to our 2/3/4’s off the dribble.

    Our perimeter defense sucks because you need to be athletic to be a good defender at a wing position and the only guy that comes close is Jamario but every time he’s on the floor he’s worthless on offense..what a dilemma…and please don’t tell me AP is a good defender. He should be moved to the bench as we make a play for Ron Artest. Joey, I know he sucks but I wanted to see if he would be able to guard Turkoglu, he’s got better physical tools than AP or Delfino so why not try him???

    Bargnani – This summer is make or break for him. Right now he’s totally worthless to us on offense, defense and everything else.

    As I look back on this series I’m not even surprised, all these problems we knew about in the regular season, why so shocked? I don’t know, prob because I’m a fan.

  10. […] really, I really don’t know what they can show/do in game 5 that will be of any consequence. Arsenalist has a primo review, definitely worth the read (all his stuff is, but he hits the nail right on the […]

  11. MUHDIK said

    well,sam gave the magic a 2 game mulligan to work with,what do we expect?the magic came in and needed a split,now we have to run the table with sam at the helm?as a fan,i believe,as a realist,we’re fucken done….all this putting the blame on individual ballers?we all got a bad case of me not we.and to the freakin morons that pine for “justice for tj”please stfu,that bitch even after yesterdays game was still talking “i” this, and “i” that…crap like that is detrimental,but all the jakoffs wanna do is trash the euro’s on this team.f u bitches…bye bye sam and tj u cancer…let’s get a real coach in here with a brain and watch this team excel.let’s get rid of me-j and his piss poor tude and get some team unity….we not me bitches,we not me.

    oh…and at the end of he game with time winding down,everybody in my pad was dying and not one of us was smiling.what do we see.tj talkin to a magic player,ALL SMILES……..one of my buddys was quick to make the comment,”was does tj care,he had a good game”…think about it.thats all it’s about for this bitch.

  12. FLUXLAND said

    Great post Arse!! I like it when you are being realistic.

    THOUGHTS on things as always:

    Most of this stuff I’ve been typing for a while..but here it goes again.

    Rebounding anyone? Don’t matter how well you play D or how well you execute the offense.. you don’t get the rebounds when the ball don’t fall on either side..you get well… the Raptors.

    Arse you know cuz I told ya- Jose is fools gold. There is nothing clutch about the guy. Last year, last play was it for me. First impressions you know? You either got or you don’t. Dude don’t. I don’t care what he does during the regular season or for 3 and half qs.. He is not that guy. TJ is.

    Parker sucked last year in the playoffs, I’ve been saying people are wrong about him all year, as well. I dunno what they saw in him. Proved it again this series, just like last year vs NJ. Leo calls him a BIGTIME PRESSURE PERFORMER!! WTF are you talking about you mongoloid? Who the hell let you be a coach anywhere let alone the national team?

    TJ and Bosh are wasting their talents here and their chemistry doesn’t match the rest of the girl scouts on this team.

    Kapono is money..it appears he was just getting bored of the regular season. And whatever he learned under Pat down in the MIA is what will keep him in the NBA forever.

    Carla, Antonia and Jose need to be shipped out. Argument over.

    Bargs has one more year, and so help him God, he better be reborn next year. Starting to doubt it. Expected much more in the playoffs.

    Moon stepped up. Fantastic rookie year. Things are only looking up for him, I think he will be a force to be reckoned with next year now that he know what the big show is all about from start to finish of the year.

    * sidenotes:

    mark (the poster) fooled me, that pic was of one of the other Mop Girls.. I’m pretty sure D G and myself are talking about the curly haired one … with the derier that doesn’t quit.

    The freaking Raptor displays more intensity then some of our players. Dude looks like he’s gonna run up into the stands and KO someone when the cheering is not up to his standard.

    Did anyone notice how depressed Chuck sounded at the end of the game. Someone put him on suicide watch and get his ass canned..next year I’m watching all the games on mute if him and Leo are on.

    Rumors in NYC about bringing Sam there. Shows you how delusional some fans *cough MUHDIK cough* are about the mans abilities and a lot of other things regarding the Raps. You don’t win COY cuz you’re a nice guy.. something he doesn’t get tagged with anyway.

  13. FLUXLAND said

    X Temp – the difference is cajones in the clutch and chemistry. Oh sure on the surface is seems its all good.. cuz everyone is saying the right things in the press and not acting out off court. Reality is the chemistry on this team is kaka. We hava a few killers with a bunch of sissies paired up. That will never work.

    But its all in what you want.. you want dudes that will sell jearseys that moms will buy cuz the players don’t portray the thug life image with attitude and wont be shooting up the club after the game?.. bring in Jose, Parker, Delfino…but don’t expect warriors and killers in the playoffs. And if you want those you need to get TJ and Bosh dudes that are ready to go to war. See: various players on Philly and the ATL.

  14. Paps said

    Terrible game. Where is the heart? This was a must win game and they blew it.

    How shitty we’re the fans. It was so quirt in there. And how cheap is MLSE. Where’s all the red t-shirts?

  15. Raps Fan said

    paps: i don’t think it is fair to question their heart on that game. they kept the game close in the 1st, took the lead in the second, played well for half the 3rd, tried to weather the magic storm at the end of the 3rd (took a 1 point lead into the 4th), and the magic just stepped up, drove to the bucket, hit the shots they were missing since game 2, and are a better team. all yesterday proved was that this team needs more pieces, and not shooting euros, some bad ass americans who can create their own shot, grab rebounds and pley d.

    flux: i was actually amused chuck was suicidal after the game. he needs to adjust his expectations and not spew so much crap about the greatness of the raptors, until they are a great team, maybe 1-2 more years.

    great wrapup arse, i’m not ready to throw in the towel on the season yet, but it will take a serious effort to get this series back to toronto for game 6.

  16. FLUXLAND said

    Raps fan.. agree with the heart comment. We got heart.. just no cojones when the clock starts winding down. Or, another way… we don’t play to win like the Magic or like ATL did last night.. we always play not to lose. Our whole concept is: get out to a great start and hope to maintain it or dig a big whole to play catch up and come up short. We need to play 48 minutes straight with equal intensity all the way thru.

    Re: Chuck.. amusing is exactly how I found it as well. I was laughing out loud for a while. Highlight of the game. It was just so obvious, and then he was trying extra hard not to sound like that and still failed.. “OK Leo.. so what the the Raps have to do so I don’t go home and swallow a whole bottle of sleeping pills?” *stares off into camera holding back tears not hearing a word Leo says* Guy creeps me out when he looks at the camera too. Chuck loves the camera and Leo loves hearing the sound of his own voice. I can picture him at home practicing in the mirror: “Well Chuck…. ” Wife asks random question: “Well, Chuck…” Dog barks to be let outside “Well, Chuck…” MLSE needs to get rid of these sideshow clowns and bring in real announcers. Go back to baseball or WTF you were doing before, Swirsk.. and give back your Canadian citizenship while you are at it. Leo needs to sell the programs at ACC and even that would be criminal

  17. FAQ said

    FLUXLAND says:

    “TJ and Bosh are wasting their talents here and their chemistry doesn’t match the rest of the girl scouts on this team.”
    ……………..

    I hear ya Fluxman, but now you must take the next step in your critical thinking mode … waz next ..??!!

    Enough with the minutae .. let’s think big ..!!!

    I suspect PHX and Dallas will be partially blown up after this season. Do you think/fantacize that TJ for Barbosa and Bosh for Nowitzki is possible or even advantageous to both teams. Crazy thoughts?? Why not …!!!!

  18. FLUXLAND said

    FAQ… wazzzzupp!! (official mandatory greeting for FAQ..lol)

    Valid question.. suppose it’s the same I ask of the fans that are asking for Sams head. Larry Brown?

    Clearly I don’t know…

    Dirk will never leave the D or Cubes will never let him go. Just the way it is. Even if it were a possibility, I’m not so sure Dirka is the solution to our “in the clutch” problems.

    TJ should not be going anywhere.. but I would welcome Barbosa .. I’m a big fan.. and I think clutch is part of his repertoire. Dude played with no shoes on dirt and rocks back home.

    I’m hoping Bosh is not fed up to the point where he wants out..he needs help in the form of another (big time) scorer that’s not a PG or at least an intimidator and rebounder that will protect him.

    Do we wait and see what happens with Andrea and Moon for another year?

    Big question to me is: if Joses stock has not dropped and the majority of the NBA feels the way SVG does.. what can we get in return? As he’s fools gold, IMO… we need to sucker a team to give us something we need.

    thought: i think you are right.. Dallas will be parially blown up… J Howard wants out and likes weed… hmmmm…..

  19. arsenalist said

    Athleticism along with length is a problem for us as Pickstar and mark said. Its so important to have those two on the defensive end because it allows you to recover after you get beat and helps keep your keep your man in front of you, something thats been a problem all year.

    Before we start the process of acquiring a second scorer, I think we need someone like Travis Outlaw, an athletic slasher who can guard. Cuzzy said someone like Reggie Evans who I’ve always liked and would help in the interior and maybe even a legit starting 2 guard like Artest because Parker is not doing it for me. I think I had a debate with Fluxland a while back and was arguing with you about Parker being a starting 2 in the league. Just want to let you know I was wrong.

    MUHDIK’s got a bloody good point too, we shot ourselves in the foot for the first two games and went ‘0 for Orlando’ thanks to Sam dimwitted thinking.

    I think Lopez summed up Game 4 the best:

    “If I see Rashard Lewis give another pump fake and drive to the hole im gonna puke.”

  20. FLUXLAND said

    Hey Arse… I agree on what we need.. I had a Reggie/RonRon in mind when I wrote intimidator and rebounder. I also think..every team needs a secondary legit scorer to get anywhere.

    No worries about Parker..not really right or wrong I guess.. you had faith and needed more convincing before you were sold… perhaps what I need with Andrea? As always.. time will only tell.

    MUHDIK is right about needing to steal one away..where to lay to blame is up to debate.. I can’t blame Sam for the way the players came out in the 1st qs. That’s on them. Although, I understand your guys’ line of thinking, don’t worry. Its just a matter of who you think should be at fault.

    LOL about Lewis.. at one point I thought the game was on tape delay and it got stuck showing the same play over and over..

    The thing about the Magic is that Howard is not going anywhere and we are gonna have to deal with him in the playoffs for time to come, if we continue making the show. We cannot expect Bosh to carry the scoring load AND wear down D12 at the other end..CB4 is not Superman..Batman maybe.. but he needs Robin from time to time.. who’s gonna be our Robin?

    And I can’t remember: do you do Top Rap in losses? Cuz you don’t have one for yesterday.

  21. arsenalist said

    No Top Rap after losses.

    Good point, Howard is here to stay and we have to go through them to get anywhere. Add Lebron to that list and the Sixers and Hawks are improving. The East might not be as good as the West but when it comes to finding a road to the EC finals, the Raptors have to face teams that are head and shoulders above them. We’ve all been saying it for a long time: this summer’s going to be the most interesting one in a long time. There’s potential free agents/trades that need to happen and this is also the summer of Bargnani going back to school. I want to see marked improvement from him come training camp. Oh the pains of building around a center who can’t rebound :(

  22. FLUXLAND said

    No Top Rap? Rightly so I suppose!

    That’s what I’m saying..and said when I started frequenting this blog: We have been lucky some of the other teams in our conference don’t/didn’t have their stuff together; because if you look at the teams on paper we have/had no business being in the positions we have been in. We didn’t overachieve.. the other teams underachieved.

    Interesting summer coming indeed!

    Re: Bargs. I guess it would be safe to say he’s not a banger and prefers shooting. That’s not to say he can’t learn to be an effective rebounder, but I don’t know if the lack of that part in his game is a result of being asked to so many various things while being here and hence not allowing him to develop it well or something else. I’m sure he has not been brought up as a banger, and then shooter, like most centers. Quite the opposite it seems actually, but it’s scary to think that with that athleticism and height he never will become one. I think the hardest thing for him to deal with has been the beatings he has to take in the press. I don’t think he takes to criticism very well.. it’s a different beast over here. Hopefully it doesn’t take away from his love of the game like some other players in the past.

  23. FAQ said

    Yooooh fluxbro’ …. (inevitable response to “wazzzzupp!!” LOL)

    Okay, here’s the real sh!t on Bosh !!! Put yourself in his size 28 shoes and project your career with the Raptors and the impact on the longevity of your bball career.

    Just remember what a skinny Bosh had to endure as a rookie on the Raps and expected to play centre instantaneously because the Raps were deficient .. and then the next couple of years of grinding and driving on the basket. No wonder VC refused to drive on the basket in futility and he settled for jump shots … to avoid contact and lengthen his bball career. Soon Bosh will be faced with the same choice .. stay with the Raps and destroy your body driving to the basket for nothing .. or just settle for soft outside jump shots and wait for a trade.

    Look fellas .. it’s a no-brainer for Bosh who must make multi-million $$$$$$ decisions as he plans out his bball career. Let the Raptor’s other players charge the basket and jeopardize their insignificant careers .. while Bosh saves his body for the last 5 years of his working career. Why should he sacrifice his body for the Raptors when it’s gonna cost him Million$$$$.

    If BC doesn’t find strong slashers, he might as well plan on trading Bosh because Bosh is not going to destroy himself for the hapless Raptors and their ‘fans’ delusional needs … plain and simple …

    Either bring in the big US bangers, or go soft Euro-ball (which Bosh might not mind) … but don’t get hung up somewhere between the two because that’s not going to be sustainable. Sh!t or git offa da pot, BC .. pull the trigger fast..!!!

  24. mark said

    Flux, the curly haired one?? Why do you even care about that one? This one is way better, no contest.

    FAQ, I believe you can’t teach a guy how to rebound. Its one of those things that comes from inside you and Bargnani doesn’t have it. He’s a glorified 3pt shooter and at best he’s going to spread the floor for Bosh. That’s the reality, anything else is being overly optimistic.

  25. FAQ said

    Re: Bargs. I guess it would be safe to say he’s not a banger and prefers shooting. That’s not to say he can’t learn to be an effective rebounder, but I don’t know if the lack of that part in his game is a result of being asked to so various things while being here and hence not allowing him to develop it well or something else. I’m sure he has not been brought up as a banger, and then shooter, like most centers. (Who said that ..???!!!)

    Now, let’s look at what Bargs has achieved with the Raptors. In his first season he was a shining light as he potted threes effortlessly, while Garbo did all the dirty work on defense and under the basket. No Garbo now and Bargs was informed he had to fill the gap with a drive to the basket game coupled with setting more picks and rebounding a lot more. Bargs made a supreme effort to accomodate BC and Gherardini’s faith in him and his performance was spotty to say the least .. and that messed up his 3-point shooting rhythm. Why commentators on this fine forum provided for us by generous Arsenalist, ignore this reality is beyond my comprehension of bball 101.

    I recall seeing Il Mago playing in Europe on YouTube, and he was running and receiving a pass under the basket and converting with an easy layup dunk. That’s Euro-ball in my limited view … run around like rats and move the ball to whomever is available or open using superior IQ … as opposed to one-on-one super-NBA big-banger hero moves that creates All-Stars that tribal honking fans adulate.

    You just can’t convert a player like Bargs into a one-on-one driving-to-the-basket NBA player when all he was doing was running without the ball in Europe and lofting soft 3-pointers not requiring much leg drive. Please take that reality into account before you trash Bargs … please ….

  26. FLUXLAND said

    FAQ… good point! The one thing he also must consider, like VC, is that TO presents the opportunity to build a legendary legacy.. something that, if he leaves for another team, will diminish and not to mention look like : Well, he couldn’t get it done in TO so he packed it in. I mean, VCs stock has dropped since leaving here. At least he had someone to blame while being here.

    The money is not an issue. He knows that’s coming no matter what. Assuming he doesn’t stay, as you say, destroy the body and his stock plummets as you say.

    Word on BC.. this summer is his defining moment in TO thus far. “In BC we trust”.. don’t make us give you the VC exit treatment, homie. You don’t want that. Trust me, you def. don’t want that.

    I wanna know about that greek kid.. he looked huge when we drafted him. And BC was looking at another Greek when in Europe earlier this year. I wonder if he’s what we need. I wasn’t able to find pics of him. Jose should be gone.. I think Roko will be an even better Jose, as unimaginable as some fans may think that is.

  27. FLUXLAND said

    FAQ ..I swear to you, I was saying that before I’ve seen you write it on here the first time. I know I wrote it on here before I’ve seen your comment and a while ago on SLAM. Great minds thinks alike? Trust me, I wouldn’t punk you without giving credit.

    co sign on everything else you wrote.. word for word

    “running around like rats” ROFLMAO… EXACTLY. Now if you can get the whole Raps team to do that..it really would give Americans trouble as proved in international competition.

    serioulsy that whole post is something i would have wrote.. great minds indeed.

  28. FAQ said

    mark Says:

    FAQ, I believe you can’t teach a guy how to rebound. Its one of those things that comes from inside you and Bargnani doesn’t have it. He’s a glorified 3pt shooter and at best he’s going to spread the floor for Bosh. That’s the reality, anything else is being overly optimistic.
    …………..

    I agree somewhat, mark, but why trash Bargs for trying his best to accomodate the team, as if he must instantaneously satisfy the deluded hero-worship, win-or-else needs of tribal honking fans?!

    It’s evident that Bargs is undergoing not only a physical change to his normal Euro-game, he is also suffering a mental change in his thinking on the court while trying to play the NBA game. Don’t you think this is a bit much to ask of anybody under the circumstances? Perhaps Mitchell telling everybody they should not be on Bargs case so much because he is young and only emerging as a NBA player. Sam understands what Bargs is going through, while the unrelenting critical ‘fans’ and media are totally stupid, IMHO.

    Those that are critical of Bargs in his second season only reveal their utter lack of empathy and no understanding what a 7 foot body can accomplish as it attempts to develop new moves. If they expected a polished NBA player in Bargs because he was chosen #1 in the draft, then I say they are daft …!!!!

  29. FLUXLAND said

    mark.. lol.. i dunno.. the curly hair maybe?.. plus the derier..everytime the camera guys caught her, and they did it on purpose, trust me… ask D G.. he’s seen that in real life.. STRAIGHT BANGIN, YO!! That other girl is aight… don’t get me wrong.. but her face has this grasshopperish look.. Hey but lucky for you… she was behind the Magic bench yesterday and got lots of camera time.. she aight..i’m just sayin..who IS curly mop girl?

    also.. you can’t teach a guy how to rebound, true. But you hope that if you make him play in enough games in the appropriate position to get a good feel of what it’s all about.. he will become effective.. which is more then he is now.. I’m not asking for double doubles.. but 5-7 average shouldn’t be too much to ask from someone of that size and athleticism.

  30. FLUXLAND said

    FAQ… again cosign! geeez!!… expectation were too high.. I know khandor will disagree cuz then he shouldn’t have been picked no1.. (and where is the khaman btw? MIA?). ..but I will tell you this..there are more then a few GMs that would take him without blinking.. trust me…

  31. FAQ said

    FLUXLAND Says:

    FAQ ..I swear to you ……………… great minds indeed.

    Oooooh fluxman .. I revel in your kudos, and only being a newbie on this fine forum. A guy like me who only has a superficial knowledge of the game, needs all the support he can get .. and you have been overly generous in your praise of me …!!!!

    I have played the game at a somewhat higher level and had the opportunity to coach kids .. but without the sophistication that is so evident on this fine forum. My body twitches subconsciously in unison with those NBAers as they make their moves while I lounge in my lazyboy and holding a cheap $5 basketball (does anybody else do this dubious behaviour while watching tv ..??)!!! Those watching me laugh, but I still got a killer jump-set shot even though gravity has overwhelmed my past ability to reach the basket on my wrists on a standing jump. Gravity eventually kills tall people …!!!

    Contrary to your VC/Bosh comments, I still believe top NBA players project their working future on a cost-benefit basis. Just look at all the dissatisfied, disaffected top players who were traded .. Gasol, Kidd, Shaq, VC, others. Some did it for new opportunity and some for career and money. I see Bosh in that same situation, because he only elected for a shorter term contract … for the changes coming up and also to increase his contract value by 2010. Bosh may be planning for a huge 5-year contract beyond 2010 and not necessarily with the Raptors. He doesn’t think of himself as a ‘franchise’ player because that’s too limiting, and he knows he could be traded in a heartbeat for business reasons.

    Honestly, I don’t consider myself a bball ‘great mind’ .. but I do cherish this fine forum where contributors think in terms of objective thought-paragraphs rather than subjective one-liner blurts by juvenile mindlets. (Occasionally reading realGM I note the Raptors forum has racked up over a million posts and mostly one-liner blurts from emotional brainlets.) Short attention span people usually respond emotionally because they have nothing significant to say in their confused state of mind. I also find excessive statistics pedantic …!!!

  32. FLUXLAND said

    FAQ!!!

    LOL! Great minds in the form of an expression.. not cuz I have one, by all accounts in various corners of the cyber globe anyway, or cuz I think I really do. : )

    That said, I think most posters have realized my Xs and Os intricacies of the game are limited, if non-existent for that matter. (I don’t enjoy debating play by play..there is too many..they rarely decide the game as much as some of the basics do, IMO that is) Not to say that its not a simple game, and I believe I have seen enough of it and played at a non competitive level, to at the very least have an uneducated opinion. Hey, I got 2 cents.. I’m throwing it in..didn’t say anyone had to like it, right?
    Also, I seem to suffer from same condition.. do questions like: “Wow, your really get into it?” or “You know they can’t hear you, right?” sound familiar? Oh, that’s just around here?.. I mean, I’m just a casual fan.. what is it .. Toronto Beavers? Squirrels?

    I think Arsenalist has created and managed to attract, in doing so, a place where respect and objective thought paragraphs are the norm. All the kudos go to him, for real! Im just a (for the most part, right Arse?) respectable poster and citizen of planet Earth.

    I see what you are saying about Chris. Like we said.. BC better stop this euro/US experiment.. the wheels have come off.. cuz it’s not helping Chris decide to stay and the frustration is growing.

    Excessive stats are pedantic is putting it mildly.. I can read a box score you know? Don’t put words like “in comparison” “game 1 vs game 2” “last year” in between the stats and post them..I can do that. A little variety you know? ..maybe a few stats here and there to reinforce a point.. but don’t shove them down my throat and sell them as opinion. Just tell me what you think… in words that is.

    Oh and in case you miss it and maybe I should have just typed: YOU SUCK! GO RAPS!!!

  33. FAQ said

    Hey Fluxy … now that we’ve got that mutual admiration off our chests, we should tone it down and let Arsenic’s fine forum come back to normal .. ya think .. LOL ..??!!!

    GO RATPORS .. GOOOOoooo ..!!!

  34. FLUXLAND said

    No doubt! LOL!

    It always does.. no worries.

    Where the heck is khandor? He always bring the discussion to another level or shifts its gears…. and I find it hard to believe he’s had nothing to say within 30 odd posting.. that’s like 0%.. in comparison to his average of 2.3 replies per comment…

    LET’S GO KHANDOR!! *thunder stix* LET’S GO KHANDOR!

  35. FLUXLAND said

    I don’t want my comments to be totally stat less.. Imma lose my cred.. Oh, I never had any? DANG!! LOL!!!

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