Arsenalist

The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Payback’s a bitch

Posted by Arsenalist on February 12, 2008

San Antonio Spurs 93, Toronto Raptors 88

“Let’s just say the language was PG.” That was the phrase used to describe Bosh’s demeanor in the third quarter by Rod Black who hasn’t figured out the motion picture rating scale just yet. When this was reported out of the huddle by the extraordinary journalist, the Raptors were getting spanked soundly by the Spurs at home and CB4 was in the midst of a miserable 3-11 FG performance where he looked exactly like the second-tier star that he is. Apparently Bosh was angry and agitated with his mates about the teams performance, the funny part about that is that the team wasn’t doing all that bad, it was Bosh that stunk the joint up by being a no-show in a statement game.

Pretend you didn’t watch the game and somebody told you the Raptors lost, what two reasons would you guess for the loss? Think about it, take a few seconds while I type a few ellipses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . if you picked rebounding and perimeter defense you’d be spot on. See, it’s come the point where you don’t even have to watch the game to know why they’ll lose. We got outmanned 46-34 on the glass and got burned by the Spurs’ perimeter ball movement which continuously carved us out with lot of the effects being felt in the paint. You’d figure that we’d defend Manu Ginobili a slightly different way after he’s already dropped 25 but no such luck, and there’s not even Sam to blame. The loss drags our record against the quality teams even further lending a significant hollowness to our overall record which stands at a seemingly constant 4 games over .500. Now when the month began, most of us had already circled this one as a L but to see it happen this way is disheartening. The loss isn’t bugging me as much as the way we lost it.

There were two plays that epitomized Chris Bosh’s performance, one of them was in the first half when he had Damon Stoudamire guarding him one-on-one at the top of the key and Bosh chose to uncork a fadeway jumper from 17 feet instead of getting the two easy point. The other play was a replica of the first one except it was Jacque Vaughan who was guarding Bosh when he launched another ungodly fadeaway. We needed him to go at Oberto and Elson with a vengeance but he chose to lay back, neither of the Spurs PF/C combo has the quickness to stay with Bosh but once again, he let them off the hook. With Bosh being a non-factor, it was left upto Jose Calderon to be the primary offensive threat and he tried his level-best to keep the Raptors in it but never got the help he needed from Parker, Bargnani or Kapono. Icy hot Carlos Delfino was the only other player who was ready to take on the challenge of the Spurs and his Argentinian pals. Not enough contributors on a night where we needed everybody to play at their level or better.

Let’s talk about Andrea Bargnani for a bit, he’s been playing a lot better of late even though his shooting percentage nor his rebounding is where we’d like it to be. But when you compare how awful he’s been for most of the year, you look at a 3-11 FG, 2 board performance and go, “Eh, he could be worse”. Or you try to justify it by saying that he at least tried to do some things right by attacking the rim and playing sound but ultimately ineffective defense on Duncan. Bluntly put, we need more output from him and I don’t even care about the boards. Although his size might suggest otherwise, most of us are starting to live with the fact that he’ll never be a great rebounder and are coming to grips with the reality that 80% of his contributions will come on offense. So on a night like this when Bosh may as well be on the bench, it makes his contribution even more important and when he comes up short, we don’t stand a chance. It’s only because of Calderon that this game was even close.

I was officially sick of it last week but now I am disgusted by Jamario Moon shooting jumpers like they were part of the game-plan. Leo’s lone good (and obvious) point in this game was that the jumper should be a supplement to Jamario’s game, not his primary offensive weapon. It’s when he starts thinking that his perimeter shot is the endpoint in the offensive set is when he needs to be benched, taken aside and given a lecture. The fact that one of the first shots of the game was a Moon deep jumper should tell you that the Raptors are a little unprepared. The Raps are one of those teams that need the first 15 plays of the game scripted, exactly what they do in important football games. It’ll get them off to a good start and help them avoid digging a 9 point hole which you struggle to get out of for the remaining 45 minutes. My point from yesterday about the Raptors coming out without any intensity at home was in clear view today as the Raps came out ball-watching instead of trying to kick-start the game.

Getting to the numbers, we shot 44% and allowed the Spurs to shoot 49% and grab 10 offensive rebounds including the most critical one when Manu Ginobili rebounded his own miss (for what seemed the 16th time) with 10 seconds left. A player who wasn’t boxed out ends up costing us a chance to tie the game. The defense on Ginobili was extremely suspect all game long, when you have a player that’s “in the zone”, you put a guy on him and tell him to not worry about anything but his man. I mean he shouldn’t look at anything but his opponent’s face and force him away from the things that he’s doing well. The Raptors simply didn’t do that, when Moon was guarding him, he was inexplicably offering help on Jacque Vaughan and Finley drives! WTF man? Just worry about Ginobili and make him put the ball on the floor and at least make him think about driving. Every time he did drive, he either didn’t finish or passed the ball off. If you’re a big Manu fan, check out this article which gives him the fellatio he deserves, apparently Greg Popovich’s PG interview consisted of two words:

“Manu Ginobili”

Deep, fucking deep. A word on the Spurs though, they were awesome to watch. The perimeter ball movement was crisp, the speed at which they recognized perimeter doubles was unbelievable and their inside-outside and outside-inside ball movement was timed perfectly enough to elude any Raptor defender hoping to make a rotation. Despite their efficient offense and our typically bad rebounding and defense, we were right there in the game and if we had just gotten a little push from Bosh, maybe if he had just canceled out Duncan’s 22, we would’ve been singing a different song. As it is, the Raptors lose to another top-tier team.

TJ Ford was ineffective, while he was on the floor he canceled out Damon Stoudamire but ended up spraining his wrist and was never heard from in the second half. I thought this was one of those games where he could’ve exploited Stoudamire or Vaughan off the dribble but watching him play you realize that although John Lucas has done a great job of keeping him in shape, he’s not ready for primetime minutes just yet. The rust is surely wearing off but his jumper is a little flat, just like it would be if your legs aren’t in your shot. It’ll come back, give it some time.

Up next for Jay Triano and the Raptors are the revenge-seeking Nets at home. I can guarantee you that Jersey will actually be up for this one and won’t have forgotten the 37 point drubbing. Let’s hope San Antonio’s the only team who’ll end up getting the payback they so desperately seek.

Liners:

* This was one of the most perimeter oriented games the Raptors have played and the offense never looked more stagnant. Aside from the high screen ‘n roll, there was zero movement.

* Bosh’s aggressiveness dictates the Raptors’ aggressiveness and when he’s not playing with fire and energy, we tend to lay back a little. Either his love with the jumper needs to stop or he needs to become a better shooter, status quo is not cool.

* Manu Ginobili had 15 boards, he knew where the ball was going before anybody else.

* Fabricio Oberto’s defense on Chris Bosh was suffocating. It’s one thing to shut a player down by forcing the jumper, Oberto played great ball denial, tight post defense, never allowed Bosh to catch the ball in an advantageous spot, used the baseline effectively and simply outsmarted Bosh.

* Andrea Bargnani didn’t have a good game but as I said before, I’m finding it really hard to criticize him because relatively speaking, he played fucking great!

* Anthony Parker’s perimeter defense needs to get better, I sound like a broken record but he needs to stick to his man and stop relying on playing recovery defense – he’s just not quick enough to be cheating and then trying to close-out a shooter like Ginobili or Finley.

* TJ and Jose played at the same time at the end of the first half. This tells me Mike Evans wants to experiment playing both PGs at the same time and it’s Mitchell that has some unwritten rule against this phenomenon.

* It’s a pity to see Jose Calderon’s awesome performance go to waste, I wish Chuck and Leo would just STFU about Calderon being more “selfish”. To top it off, as soon as he missed an open jumper, they point out how the move wasn’t “aggressive”.

* Tim Duncan’s line: 11-19 FG, 22 points, 13 rebounds.

* If you’re sick of Chuck Swirsky and want to listen to the game on the equally bad but less annoying Fan 590, check out this piece of software, it gets rid of the TV delay by syncing your radio.

Till tomorrow.

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34 Responses to “Payback’s a bitch”

  1. Messiah2315 said

    The Real problem is not even that our perimeter defenders are not good.

    Parker and Delfino are above average, and Moon is capable… I think the ultimate thing boils down to trust. There is no enforcer inside, and outside of Rasho, there never is. The Raptors need either Bosh or Bargnani to provide some lane intimidation, because if you’re a Parker, or Delfino, you can’t get up tight on your man because you’re always worried about the blow by. If you get up too tight on any star player in this league, they’re going to the rim. How many blocks do Duncan (in Det, Ben Wallace) and such bigs get because of helping their perimeter guys?

    Kevin O’neill once explained to me their complicated system in Detroit and how they would intentionally fork/Knife guys into taking Shots over Wallace. They would use say a Billips to play his man on an angle, but get up. He would angle him to go right, and as he would go, Wallace would be there to get a charge or a block. It is in fact 3 men who deserve a lot of credit for the pistons championship, and its 3 defensive coaches (Carslile, O’niell, and Larry Brown). They perfected that system and they beat everyone with it. You could potentially do something like that here if Bosh was up for it, but he doesn’t have the mental motor Ben Wallace does… hardly anyone does.

  2. Crank said

    Fuck me Messiah, we’ve never had an enforcer inside so why start complaining about it now. Arse has a good point, why help when you know you can’t recover? Arse points out Parker but Calderon, Moon and Delfino are guilty too. But poor Calderon always gets short-changed when he’s the one doubling, nobody rotates to his man making him look bad. Anybody caught the Vaughn layup?

    After a few shots of brandy I got myself to look past Bosh and his weak ass game but where was he on defense? I thought we should’ve put Bosh on Duncan and see how he fares because poor Mago’s never seen footwork like this before. I knew this wasn’t his night when he faded on Damon, check the TIVO, even Damon was shocked Bosh faded on single coverage.

    Recurring themes this season: rebounding, perimeter defense, can’t beat good teams, letdowns at home.

    Calderon came to play, muchos respect. Good to see Mike Evans not being scared to play Forderon at the same time, Mitchell’s all taboo about that shit.

  3. Raptors2009 said

    There is a man who can sure up our perimeter defense – Ron Artest. I’m being serious too..he’ll even toughen the team up and bring a jailhouse atmosphere instead of the McDonalds Play Place one that currently exists.

    Messiah’s bang on about lane intimidation but that’s also 100% wishful thinking, if BC felt that’s important to a team (which he doesn’t looking at his Phoenix track record) he’d trade for Camby or Dalembert or some other genetic freak. Bosh and Bargnani are too nice to intimidate people, while we’re dreaming I’d also like Moon to read the scouting report, Delfino to stop chucking and Parker to glue himself to his man. Why didn’t Hump see more action in this game?? He wasn’t that bad out there

  4. Raptors2009 said

    Also..LOL at Rod Black and his PG rating..what a tool.

  5. john said

    The many reasons why I love Manu & Argentina is simply because whatever they do, they do it beautifully.

    http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2008/02/nba-news-big-hit-from-manu.html

  6. Messiah2315 said

    There is lane intimidation, and there are defenders of the year. No one is saying Marcus Camby or Sam Dally need to be had in order to shut the frikkin paint down. This is my proposition. Well… these are my 2 scenarios.

    To stop your pansy interior defense –

    Trade

    Juan Dixon
    Joey Graham
    Kris Humphries
    First round pick

    for

    Darko Milicic.

    Unfortunate but true, Darko is a leaps and bounds better defender than Bosh or Bargnani at this point. He is also a better rebounder, stronger, and tougher than either of those 2 as well. He can play the 4/5 and be the ultimate 6th man on this team if he so wishes. With so many other European players you may see him blossom. He may eventually wish to start in which case… You have a little issue. Now you decide which of these top 5 pick bigs you wish to exchange for your SF of the future. Darko, Bosh, or Bargnani … if you let Darko develop, his value is going to be off the charts at the end of next year. If he’s the one you wish to move, along with TJ, it’ll probably be enough to land an all star. And in the mean while, his 2 blocks per game, and double doubles with his rebounding provide some serious lane intimidation.

    consider me crazy, but if scoring is the only thing Bosh does better than Milicic, considering Darko is actually younger than Bosh, he’s not that much worse as a player. When you can block 2 shots a game as a young 22-23 year old and rebound the way he does, plus he’s athletic with good hands, mobility, and very good length, you’re talking about a guy who actually deserved the hype. He’ll never be better than Melo or Lebron, but I’d argue that some day he has the potential STILL to be better than Bosh. Just because… great players defend, and Bosh… doesn’t.

    So then you have basically 8 man rotation with a ninth man playing Gunner off the bench
    Mins and projected stats in those mins

    1-Jose – 30 mins 11 pts 9 apg
    2-Parker- 33 mins 12 pts 4/2
    3-Moon – 25 mins 8pts- 5 rpg – 1.6bpg
    4-Bosh- 38 mins – 19 ppg, 8.8rpg 1.2
    5-Bargnani – 28 mins 13.2ppg 4.5rpg 0.7

    4/5-Darko – Sixth man =22 mins 8ppg, 7.3rpg, 1.7bpg
    1/2-Ford – Sixth Man – 20 mins 8ppg 5.3apg,
    2/3-Delfino – Role player-20 mins 7.3ppg, 4.2rpg
    3-Kapono – Role player-17 mins 8.2ppg
    5-Rasho – Role Player – 8 mins -2.7ppg, 3.2rpg

    Other scenario is to trade for Ron Artest , but that could be a little problematic later on… when he decides he’s had enough cold weather.

  7. […] you didn’t watch the game and somebody told you the Raptors lost, what two reasons would you guess for the loss? Think about it, take a few seconds while I type a few ellipses . . . . . . . . . . . […]

  8. Red Rebounder said

    Oberto laying the pwn3ge on Bosh was a sight to see. I don’t care if he’s having a “great” season, I measure a superstars performance in big games and key stretches, not in stat-padding games. He comes up short too often and I end up getting even more frustrated why we’re building around him. He’s a good player who people try to portray as a franchise player. Overrated IMHO and I’m not saying this based on one bad game, he’s not a guy you go to war with.

    Messiah — Adding another soft Euro who thinks he’s a badass isn’t the way to go and even if you need to trade for him, you don’t give up a first rounder. But I see what you’re going for. Applying this search gives you the block leaders and you just took the first available one

    http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Blocks.jsp?league=00&conf=OVERALL&position=0&splitType=9splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=All%20Teams

    But I’d rather have Biedrins or Kirilenko if it’s all the same.

    Arsenalist, I’m glad you dropped the green font for Bargnani. He’s playing aggressive which is all I look for, stats don’t even matter anymore.

  9. Dinosty said

    Uh, Darko? Can you show me one solitary thing he’s done in his NBA career to merit the mention of his name when you’re not discussing who’s carrying Rudy Gay’s luggage? Come on man, that’s ridiculous.

    Wasn’t it obvious that Sam wasn’t there last night, the way Jamario was jacking his jumpshots? (or the fact that TJ and Jose were on the court at the same time, for some insane reason). It was like your parents leaving you with the incompetent blonde babysitter from down the street. He just did whatever he wanted. And you know he’ll point to the couple of J’s he hit when they watch tape as evidence that he can hit them. And Smitch will smack him across the head, no doubt.

  10. arsenalist said

    Isn’t a Euro team like ours supposed to cut and play Princeton style ball? WTF happened to that? We’re more stagnant than Katie Price in her sex tape. I don’t think we have the coaching style that matches our personnel. Mitchell’s a motivator type coach but doesn’t understand the finer points of X’s and O’s basketball to correctly utilize the players at his disposal.

    Dinosty, it’s best to let Messiah’s comments sink in before responding. I’m not saying you’ll agree but at least you understand where he’s coming from. Darko’s been brought up before as a possible acquisition on RealGM, his stats aren’t terrible but I think he lacks basketball IQ and isn’t the “intimidator” that Messiah himself is proposing. Adding him might increase our BPG but it’ll hardly prevent guards from driving the lane. I think Hump can give us a lot of what Darko can by just increasing his PT. Anytime he’s allowed to play through his mistakes, he’s ended up having decent games.

    Red, I dropped the green font a while back, you just noticed?

    Crank, that was refreshing, more Forderon at the same time can only be a good thing unless they’re getting exploited defensively.

  11. […] – Arsenalist […]

  12. Messiah2315 said

    While you feel Darko isn’t going to intimidate, I beg to differ. He’s had some HUGE games defensively in spurts this season. He just needs the environment to mature properly. This is that place in my opinion.

    He’s averaged like 10/12/ 2.5 blocks per game over a 5-6 game stretch a few times. You eventually are going to need a smarter coach like Arsenalist has suggested, but Humphries is just as clueless, 3 inches shorter, half as talented, and not a shot blocker due to his stubby arms. There is no comparison in my books. Humphries is over-rated. He goes one thing very well and that is rebound. He’s yet not a rebounding specialist. He is a poor man’s Reggie Evans, and has shown few reasons to suggest he’s worthy of Darko-esque investment or minutes. I like him as a 10th/11th guy on the team, not a consistant rotation player. He just doesn’t accept his role, and play within his limited talent. He feels the need to play outside of himself far too often. His entire success is as a finisher around the rim, and even that he’s average. You’d be better off trading him for Evans. That is if you wish to play more minutes from that role. And also, he’s not good defensively at all. His man-man is below average and his help is aweful. He hustles so it doesn’t look as bad, but when you watch the play 4-5 times, he’s almost always doing the wrong thing.

  13. Messiah: moon doesn’t play fundamental defense. he just tries to get the block, he never steps in for a block, or denies the ball. every premiere 3 he has played has gave him a diploma this season.

    i’d make that trade for darko you mentioned. i doubt memphis moves him for donuts. they already made two bad trades this year.

    Crank: a lot of us have been calling for the raptors to stop double teaming. defensive rotation sucks for them. bosh rarely covers any of the premiere forward/center. and when he does, he gets schooled.

    Raptors2009: i love you man. i have been calling for ron artest all season. if he could work on not being a cancer, he would be a good fit because he also scores in the paint like a champ also.

    Arsenalist: you verbalize what i’m thinking. raptors need a starting three asap. bargnani will not be a defender/rebounder, but he has to score.

    i started maniacally laughing when they mentioned bosh was pissed off in the huddle. i actually thought the raptors did a decent job on defense. they limited the spurs to 93 points. they just couldn’t score, and that falls on bosh, and calderon to a lesser extent for not getting everyone else involved as well as he usually does.

    genius game plan the spurs employed. jersey wont be an easy game, glad i’m gonna be there. hopefully when i’m flicking pennies at the court, i catch carter right in the ear.

  14. i only make that trade for darko because he would be used more than all those guys combined. the first rounder we give up would be mid first round, and frankly, the raptors haven’t had great scouting/selections the last couple of years, so i could live with it.

    you would think this team would play princeton ball, but we have no slashers. all we have are guys who can curl off a screen and jack a shot. princeton ball requires a slashing three…delfino is the closets we have, but he’s not quite up to the task.

  15. Messiah2315 said

    Ultimate problem with this team is while the pieces they have are good, they’re not good together.

    Bosh-Bargnani – your starting front court. One can’t defend, and he blocks half as many shots as he’s capable of. The other doesn’t rebound or help on defense but plays good man to man. Both play out on the perimeter, and not one of them has a post move they can do two times in a row without just throwing the ball into the rafters. You put one of these two next to a Shaq, an Emeka, a D-12.. and you see some success. But as they are now… together, cogging up 30 + mins each in your front court… it makes it hard to elevate to “championship” level bball,

    FORD-CALDERON – 2 bad defenders at your one place where defense is so very very crucial. When opposing PG’s get into the paint so easily, they open up things for everyone. Kidd’s carved this team up so many times I almost have stopped watching NJ-TOR games. He even has big scoring games for heavens sake.

    Parker-Moon – no major scorer, no major defensive stopper, one of these guys may be okay, but having both on the same starting line… is a problem

    End result – mediocrity.

    If you have a Parker next to an Artest, you can deal with that. If you have a Parker next to a Magette, you can deal with that. If you have Calderon/Devin Harris as your PG duo, you’re better off, if you have Dwight/Bargnani or Bosh/Okafor you’re better. Its about balance. Too much of the same crap on this team. Too many guys with the same strengths, and same weaknesses.

  16. PsychicSpy said

    “Bosh and Bargnani are too nice to intimidate people.”

    This is the whole problem with Bargs… he’s a nice guy. With has ZERO rebounding TALENT. Something you are BORN WITH. Only people that have never played competitive BB, hockey, or soccer even at the high school level… think NBA level rebounding can be “taught”. The idea is idiotic. Moon was
    a great rebounder when he was 5 years old… and Bargs will always SUCK.

    As long as Messiah is talking about building a Championship Team around a Soft Euro With No Rebounding Talent at C or PF or SF… it’s all pointless.

    Also, BC will not be trading 1st rounders… he should be aquiring them… because we are still 3, not 2, years away. And I’m tired of this FANTASY that Dixon,Joey,Hump have trade value. You can ONLY trade scrubs for scrubs.

    The idea floated by Bob McCown is the ADULT version of the Messiah Darko idea. You cannot bring in inside “toughness” while hanging on to Bargs. You START by trading Bargs. His trade value is back up there… 7 footers maintain their value amazingly well. And a multi-player deal INCLUDING Bargs for a Kaman level player (13/11 last 2 seasons) makes more sense… as opposed to the Bona Fide 8/6 Bust that is Darko Version 2008.

    And as for Bosh… he CANNOT play inside 82 games/year. It’s physically impossible. BC has done ZERO to get Bosh help… in the form of rebounding and a LEGIT #2 scoring option. As long as this is the case… Bosh MUST coast a lot and just brick jumpers… otherwise he WILL break done physically.
    Until Bosh gets help… leave him alone.

  17. Wham said

    what psychic said minus the excuses for Bosh. where was he yesterday or was he already “done physically”? I get you but you can’t make excuses about last nites performance. He didnt come to play and made Oberto’s job easy.

    What’s up with this site, it’s all broken for me with no menu’s and stuff, had to look for this post hard.

  18. Birdman said

    Arsenalist, you forgot about Leo’s second good observation (improving his count to 6 on the year); immediately after Ginobili jacked up his 3 point shot with 20 secs left in the 4th, Delfino started sprinting up-court, expecting to catch a hail-Mary pass off a teammate’s rebound, instead of BOXING OUT Ginobili and defending against the offensive rebound.

    Nobody knows how the ball is going to rebound off a miss than the shooter himself. That play alone made me want to throw my remote through the TV and it killed the game for the Raps. They were down 3 at that point!

  19. arsenalist said

    I’m starting to hate Gilbert Arenas, I think he’s being very disprespectful to Calderon in his latest blog:

    On the East side, I don’t know if there were any big snubs. I mean, some people wanted Jose Calderon. Jose Calderon? Who? Come on man, this is All-Star, people. When I’ve seen some of the names that are being thrown around on the ticker as snubs, it’s killing me. I understand Calderon has the best assist-turnover ratio in the league, but you know what’s funny? All back-up point guards have the best assist-turnover ratios. Screw it, Kevin Ollie should be an All-Star then! For like five or six years, Ollie was No. 1 in assist-turnover ratio!

    An All-Star is an All-Star! He’s playing at a high level. That means, if you take him off the team, that team should fall down if he’s that one guy. An All-Star means that he is dominating the game of basketball. It’s not even about numbers necessarily, it’s about dominating.

    I could probably say that Richard Jefferson got snubbed maybe Josh Smith too. His 18 points, 10 rebounds and three blocks puts him at No. 14. Richard Jefferson is No. 13. Turkoglu is No. 15. But, El Calderon? Come on.

    I’ve been loving the way he’s been playing for the last two years. When he first came into the league he was a little timid and scared to shoot the ball, but he’s taking over that team. But All-Star? He’s about 20 years away from being an All-Star.

    http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300023403

  20. i don’t know dude, he is exaggerating, but makes good points. i wouldn’t have voted him on ahead of anyone who made it if i had a vote. and i love the guy.

  21. Sam is COY said

    Messiah2315 > your Bosh and Bargnani assesment is what I’ve been harping about for awhile. It’s a flawed team while playing together unless you move one of ’em to the 3 spot, or just play 3 4’s.

    arsenalist > Gilbert Arenas has always been a dick/bitch. I’m one of the biggest JC fans out there, but I don’t think he’s an all-star. But by the bitch/dicks definition, the team would be screwed if JC gets injured.

  22. Birdman said

    Haha, that’s a great post. Kevin Ollie!

    Just shows that Calderon got what he deserved for his play: some all-star consideration, but not a selection. That’s because he was really the starting PG for a short length of time relative to other starting PGs. His numbers were fantastic in that role, no doubt, but in reality only sustained for a month and a half or so.

    If TJ gets traded (which I can’t see happening) and Caledron plays 35+ mins CONSISTENTLY he will start to be taken more seriously around the league.

  23. arsenalist said

    It’s one thing to say that there are players ahead of him in the all-star consideration list but to say shit like “He’s about 20 years away from being an All-Star.” and “All back-up point guards have the best assist-turnover ratios.” even though he’s been starting for a lot of the season reeks of ignorance.

    By his definition, he himself isn’t an all-star since the Wiz are doing perfectly fine (if not better) without him. They’re missing Butler more than him and play as a team. Referring to him as “El Calderon” is a little condescending too, rubbed me the wrong way, maybe I’m making too much out of it.

  24. PsychicSpy said

    Arse, thanks for the radio delay idea. I found a better hardware solution.

    http://delayplay.com/specs.htm

    I actually went to high school with Leo (St.Mikes)…
    and money is no object to finally get that guy out of my life.

  25. arsenalist said

    Haha, you must find it a little weird hearing him speak.

    DelayPlay’s a nice find but unfortunately neither of the two products cover my case. I almost always watch the game on PVR, if it’s a 7PM start, I’ll start watching at 8PM, that way I fast forward through all the commercials and halftime and finish the game off just after it would normally end and save an hour.

    Last night I started the game at midnight (hence the late post). But on the rare occasion that I watch it truly live, the delay software comes in handy. I’m not even exaggerating how annoying it’s become to sit through Chuck and Leo. Actually the funny part is that the delay software link was sent to me by Eric Smith himself who apparently receives a lot of requests wanting to know how to silence Chuck Swirsky.

  26. PapiJulio said

    Holy shit…. Been busy at work… this is quite the replys, but I finished the novel…

    Darko Milicic.. I can’t stand him. He’s always complaining and mad on the court. So, he’s big, but he’s not a stable player. If your big guy and gets frustrated/mad way to often people don’t take you serious and play better against him. When Paul Perice gets mad it’s different but Darko loses focus.

    I think Barganai is on a simular learning curve but he doesn’t show his furstration. He keeps trying. If your from Rome Italy you’ve heard all the worst criticism and not too much get under your skin now. You can tune things out. Barganai is a athletic 7’0″. He’s NOT skinny. There is no reason he can’t learn to play defense. Plus he’s big enough to push the big guys out once he learns. And I don’t think I’ve seem him tired yet.

    Birdman- You got it I think. It’s not Delfino fall for loosing the game but… in the last replay you see him running up court instead of covering his man. The Moon missed jumper really started a bad string of events. When will Moon learn. DON”T SHOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe Moon should go see Will Ferrell in the new movie ‘Semi-Pro’.
    The start player name is Moon and the cameras are rollin’ for Hollywood in the movie. NOT in the NBA!!!!

  27. man, was leo an ass in highschool too spy?

    what kind of pvr do you have arse? i need to buy one, i’m thinking about those tivo’s, they are dirt cheap.

  28. coach said

    i agree. oberto played cb4 very well.bosh must drop the prima donna stance. he is not ‘there’ yet until he lifts his team to at least the east championship!

  29. arsenalist said

    I have the Rogers HD PVR box, Explorer 8300 HD. It’s actually a rental, I pay almost 23 bucks a month to keep it. I think if you want to buy it, it’s around a grand or so.

  30. Johnn19 said

    The Raptors did a lot of things wrong vs SAS but in the end were a couple of plays away from beating the NBA champions for the 2nd time this year, by just playing defense for half the game.

    THINK ABOUT THAT. There are lots of things needed, but the most important is patience. This is still a young team 1.5 years into a rebuilding program. They will get better. BC will add players to improve the main weakness at the “3” in scoring and defending, and possibly rebounding, but it has to fit the short/long time talent/fiscal plan.

    Bosh and Bargnani are not going anywhere at 23 & 22 years old and their talent. They will improve and the rebounding will improve in time. Bosh is the FRANCHISE but still not a complete player. He must grow in his skill level in dealing with defenive coverage designed to stop him. A good start would be to study and learn from players like Duncan/Garnett who face doubles etc as a way of life, and excel in spite of.

    Raptors will continue to be inconsistent untill Bargnani and Bosh become consistent together, and TJ Ford returns to his before the injury form.

    Calderon needs to continue his increased scoring during times when others struggle. He still has considerable upside as a Point Guard in the NBA, and should be signed long term and for the future. He is a proven winner and World Champion along with Garbajosa, bringing that experience, who plays the game for the TEAM to win, not personal stats.

  31. Messiah2315 said

    As for the criticisms of Darko, its the same god damn thing they were saying about Delfino. He’s always bitching about his lack of PT, or being left off the Championship roster (playoffs) or whatever. But you give them the right setting, the right coach, and the right situation and they can thrive. Darko has value. He can probably net you next years Gasol (whoever that may be) if it doesn’t work out.

    I think Bryan jumped the gun on Graham and Hump’s extensions. Had he not picked up their contracts or in Humps case handed him such a long extension, you would have yourself 2 expiring contracts. In a world of fantasy, assuming the Kings are as sick of Artest as we are lead to beleive, why wouldn’t they trade him for 2 young expirings and a veteran expiring? Artest makes about 7-8 million and will want more next season. Unless they’re willing to pay him more than that, they have to move him.

    As for Bargnani, he is not soft. I know in my heart and through my eyes he is a tough player, a tough minded player. HE SHOWS NO FEAR. When he is confident, he’s unshakable. There is this quality, where great players can miss 4 shots and still think they are going to make the next 30. It is just something you call the “IT” factor. Bargnani in europe and in stretches here has shown clutch dominance. He has the balls to do it. Yes, his rebounding is often poor, but not a quarter as bad as everyone makes it to be.

    When you are a good post defender, who constantly manning up and guarding guys on the post who are threats (ala Duncan or Jefferson) your energies are focuessed on boxing them out. What Bargnani does, is he boxes out and sticks to his man. He has no confidence to box, and time his jump. It will come. You will eventually see 7-8 rpg.

  32. Messiah2315 said

    “My official message to the Realgm Raptors board”

    Just… stop?
    You do this every year. You hype up a player who plays on another team because you see him twice a year and he lights you up. You see them and you feel you would give up anything on your team to get said player. There are surely posters more responsible than others, but for some reason, “not making major moves” is seen as a very big negative. I see this as a time to evaluate, not make major moves. This is not the time to give up on Bargnani, when he’s finally showing signs of brilliance. Do you know how many times in the last 10 games he’s outscored Bosh on similar touches? Go count.

    This is not to say we’re not all guilty sometimes of looking across the fence, but when you mention Corey Maggette as a God-send type of player, you forget one very large thing. He’s not. He’s never going to be a Raptor because of who he is. Sadly, neither will Ron Artest. If you get toughness, you’ll get it in the form of Nocioni, or some girrzled vet. Maggette is notorious for complaining about not getting enough touches, or not having enough plays called for me. Sam hasn’t called a play for anyone other than Bosh in 3 years. How is that going to sit with him? How about the depth factor? How many players are willing to be Anthony Parkers? Settle for 26 mins in a game one night. How many guys are like Juan Dixon? Sit for 4 games, yet still be so positive in the locker room? This team has holes, and you can’t push the panic button so often because of it.

    I think moves made in haste are ones you regret. Give up on Bargnani today, I assure you down the line he will torch this team for 40 points per game as Raptors fans say “what if?” for the next 2 decades. He’s a good kid, one who is learning to play the 5. Lakers fans were more patient with Bynum, and you have some other cases of centers “getting it” at that 25-26 age, and struggling a bit with “center issues” in their 22-24 age.

    Stop making requests about trading for these HORRIBLE players, like Maggette and Pietrus. Are they better than what you have right now? Is Mikael Pietrus better than Carlos Delfino? At ANYTHING?

    People need to stop having such exaggerated ideas of player worths. Bargnani, Calderon, and Moon are three players who are worth a lot more to GM’s around the league than we usually imagine. The Suns traded for Shaq because their team of Hill and Nash is aging, and their window of opportunity is closing.

    The Raptors are not contenders and thus can take a while to evaluate. If anything, trading for guys like Mcgrady or Maggette or whoever you have in mind is wiser as your young pieces mature, you have a better idea of who to keep/ who not to keep, and as those players values go down. There is NO TRADE you can make right now which makes this team a title contender outside of moving Bosh. And that would be a very “young for old” type deal, in which case you may be able to get a “in his prime” super star who may be able to carry this team 2 rounds into the playoffs… again.. no championship. So let Bargnani get better, let Bosh grow up. Maybe when it’s all said and done, those 2 score a combined 46 points per game and you really don’t need “creators” on the wing? The Spurs had Sean Elliot and Mario Ellie in their first championship… facing Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell on the other end… say what you will about how good Elliot “could have been” you’re still talking about two role players against two star players for the Knicks. The Spurs won…

    Any team which is building around a 4-5 combo which causes as many match up night mares as Andrea and Bosh do… should be happy. Now.. it’s just about finding the right guys to go around them. And that right guy isn’t the type of guy who’s going to need 14 touches a game… *ahem Maggette ahem*

  33. arsenalist said

    Here you go man, don’t tell me I don’t look out for a reader:

    http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=15473176#15473176

  34. Edward said

    The timing of the JKidd trade was especially sweet considering the Nets were in town to play the Dinos. Kidd needed a couple seasons but he figured out what some of us here have always know – that VC is a selfish and gutless paycheck player – a poison. Remarkably similar to his very talented and similarly poisonous cousin TMac. Vinnie duped the Nets into staking more $$ for his half-hearted participation. Looking forward to seeing VC suffer in the swamp without JKidd.

    On a much happier note:
    Thanks for posting goals so quickly Arsenalist! A footy fan can get pretty frustrated looking for footage in our hockey crazed country. Go GUNNERS!

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