The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Raps outlast Blazers to exact sweet revenge

Posted by Arsenalist on January 13, 2008

Portland Trailblazers 109, Toronto Raptors 116 (2OT)

The biggest gaffe of this game wasn’t Jamario Moon fouling Travis Outlaw on a four point play which tied the game. It was the Raptors NOT fouling Brandon Roy when he rebounded the ball in the first overtime inside the arc with the clock ticking down and the Raptors saving their foul for yet unknown reasons. Roy’s three which sent the game to double overtime where the Raptors eventually prevailed should’ve never have happened and is a prime example of the players being unaware of the situation at hand. But let’s put the break on the negativity and praise the Raptors for hanging in there against a tough, tough (the repetition is warranted) Portland team that refused to die and crashed the offensive boards to stay in the game.

Now this is a quality win. There’s no reason to jump up and down when you beat Philadelphia or New York but downing the NBA’s hottest team after being deflated twice by deep bombs deserves a lot of praise. Chris Bosh, Jose Calderon and Anthony Parker were huge on the offensive end for us and Carlos Delfino chipped in with 16 increasing the bench production which has been missing of late in big games. It was good to see Bosh attack the rim in the overtime periods when it mattered the most and to nobody’s surprise he had success. Aside from having 38 points and 14 rebounds, he had 3 huge blocks and changed many Portland shots saving the Raptors at least 10-12 points. He was the reason we won and Nate McMillan acknowledged that:

“We didn’t have an answer for Bosh”

Give credit for Jamario Moon for atoning for his end of regulation error by coming up with blocks on Roy and Jack which spawned fast break opportunities. He had to be the happiest guy on the team because even if nobody would say it, this game was on him if things had gone south in OT. This might be the place to mention a site dedicated entirely to Jamario Moon where we learn that Moon is going to the slam dunk contest. Reminds me a little of the obsolete

How about Sam Mitchell putting out bosh Bosh and Calderon in the game at the start of the fourth? Was that refreshing or what? I guess he learned his lesson after Darrick Martin had handed the Blazers the game on the west coast and took no chances putting his two best offensive options in the game facing a six point deficit. It’s a no-brainer really but for Sam, it’s an improvement. It wasn’t a fluke that the Raps went on a 7-0 run with Roy on the bench at the start of the quarter turning this into a game that was going to be decided by the slimmest of margins.

Anthony Parker who many want traded for crazy rebuilding reasons poured in 25 to singlehandedly keep the Raptors in this game early when Roy was having his way with us. The Raptors who’ve been guilty of helping off the wrong perimeter player so many times were making the same mistake in this game by leaving Roy open by having Parker help on the player driving into the rim from the weak side! Roy lit us up early when Parker was on him blowing by him at will on a few occasions, it was then that we put Jose on him with specific instructions to NOT provide help under any circumstance. The move worked to some extent because Roy didn’t get open looks from the perimeter and was forced to score and create by driving, something we can live with. On the other end the Blazers chief defensive strategy is to to switch on every screen and they can afford to do that with the personnel they have. The Raptors did excellent in exploiting the resulting matchups like Calderon/Outlaw, Bosh/Outlaw, Calderon/Przybilla, Parker/Aldridge and all kinds of G/PF switches where Portland offered the Raptors to contend with.

Bosh comes under fire for taking too many jumpers and if you listen to Chuck and Leo and also look at Sam’s reactions to him shooting springers, I’m inclined to think that Sam is of the same mind as the fans when it comes to Bosh settling for jumpers. Bosh had success literally every time he drove the ball early and even then he was shooting 18 footers, it boggled my mind because that was playing right into Portland’s hands. The one horrendous side effect of him shooting jumpers is that when he was missing, there was nobody to rebound the ball for us because Portland’s rebounding positioning was intact. When he drives and misses, Moon, Delfino, Humphries have an opportunity to grab the offensive board against a Portland defense that’s busy trying to contend with an aggressive Bosh.

It’s become apparent that defensive rebounding is our Achilles heel, this is a long standing problem that requires an immediate solution, hopefully before the trading deadline. Quite simply put, Bosh needs some help and Humphries, Moon and Rasho aren’t enough to contend with the tall trees that teams put out against us. Don’t believe me, check out the rebounding distribution in this game for the Blazers and compare it with the Raptors’. I for one am ecstatic when the ball just bounces behind the backboard to give us possession – no chance of an offensive rebound there! Seriously though, I think Bosh is doing a phenomenal job rebounding the ball and boxing out considering how much energy he’s been exerting on offense. Bargnani, God bless his soul, is a good man with a good heart but his development as a rebounder is too slow for us to expect anything on the boards for him. I fear a Bosh injury if he has to keep playing like this because right now he’s playing every possession with his heart on his sleeve.

Channing Frye and Travis Outlaw’s points hurt us because they all seem to come when we were in the business of trading possessions with them in late regulation and overtime, both are two players that I would love to see on the Raptors. I was one of those who thought that Portland won the Randolph deal by acquiring Frye who still hasn’t reached his potential and needs more minutes to show just how productive he can be. As for Outlaw, he’s improved his outside shooting to the point where you have to be cognisant of it when guarding him, same for Martell Webster who possesses the combination of athleticism, ability and skill that’s a coach’s dream. But hey, we got Jamario Moon who held his own against Outlaw for the most part of the game, yeah he got scored on a few times but the rookie never lost focus.

An awesome and hard-fought win for the Raptors where Bosh led the way and Parker provided key scoring early, Calderon pitched in late and Moon played good defense in overtime redeeming himself for his 4-point play foul. Let’s not forget Carlos Delfino who when he decides to be more than jump shooter can be real asset to us. Coming up next is Detroit which by all accounts and Las Vegas predictions should be an L, let’s see what the Raptors learned last week when they handed it to us at the ACC.


* Outside shooting is such an important part of the Raptors that unless we don’t hit our outside jumpers at a minimum 45% clip, we’ll have trouble staying in the game.

* This game came down to who will step up defensively first and the Raptors did that through Bosh and Moon in OT. Calderon’s key steal on Aldridge iced the game.

* Charles Barkley things Portland will miss the playoffs. That’s just crazy talk.

* You must check out Darrick Murray Martin and his “big balls” dance.

* It’s hard to find a weakness in Brandon Roy’s game but if you look really hard you’ll notice that if you force him to drive, help if he beats his man and rotate properly, you can contain him.

* We need to get Kapono some looks, he’s being wasted right now and is given zero space on the perimeter. It’s a tough situation for the Raps. Maybe we need to put him on the same side as a Bosh post-up so his man is the one that’s helping on the Bosh doubles.

* Bargnani wasn’t awful today, he had a couple hoops but got bit by foul trouble. It’s almost like he doesn’t know the rules in the NBA about hand-checking and what constitues a foul. When he does get called for fouls, he’s got that look which says, “That’s a foul?!?!??”. He should’ve taken Roy to the rim on the post-up, instead he shot the ball like it was a time-bomb.

* Jarret Jack helped us out by going 4-16, Aldridge was 5-17 but Bosh had a lot to do with that.

* Raps get out-manned 52-44 on the boards but make up for it at FT line 18-23.

* Best game of the year so far.

* Podcast #2 tomorrow. If you missed the first one, click here.


32 Responses to “Raps outlast Blazers to exact sweet revenge”

  1. David Moro said

    Roy is a shooter with a slippery handle.

    Despite what a “big” guard everyone calls him he struggles when he is forced to drive into shotblocking help. I’ve been watching a lot of Blazers games, and he gets his shot blocked a lot if he is forced into a taller player (not matched up far away from the hoop on a switch), but just as you said, forced into help.

    He’s no Jordan, but he is very composed, heady, and unselfish. He’s a great glue guy who will always be a major threat from the perimeter and on mismatches for the drive.

    He’s not getting any better than he already is, though. What you see is what you get (which is plenty good).

    Let Bargs get stronger physically though and we’ll see why the GM went big over small.

  2. nolagunner said

    I’m not being snarky here, but has anyone considered the idea that Bosh doesn’t drive every time because he’s fucking exhausted? I mean, the man has to pace himself given all he’s being asked to do.

  3. arsenalist said

    nolagunner, agreed totally. A I said, I fear an injury because of all he’s being asked to do. I’m just pointing out that he’s simply more effective when he drives and should even considering just pass the ball off instead of attempting 18 footers, I think it’ll result in more quality possessions.

  4. PsychicSpy said

    Best win of the year so far. And let’s give Sam some credit for keeping the ** right guys ** on the floor during extended crunch time (Bosh, Moon, Parker, Delfino, Calderon). Especially after he ripped Moon on national TV … for playing soft on that 4th quarter rebound.

    Man, was BC pissed off today. He gets shown up every time the Raps play the Blazers.

  5. RapsFan said

    Ahh good game over Portland today, and stayed entertaining at least, instead of me thinking I’ve wasted a Sunday afternoon from watching it.


    I cringed at the Raptors and their inability to grab even their OWN boards, not even offensive ones. Portland wouldn’t of stayed in the game for THAT long if we could simply box out, time and time again we see them getting second chance opportunities in late game situations. It was absolutely heart breaking.

    Brandon Roy is a pleasant surprise, he seems to be able light it up and produce/distribute at will, whether driving, dishing, or shooting. I hate going into this would’ve/should’ve talk, but if we choose Roy in that 06′ draft… our team would’ve been scary and might be able to compete against the big liners like Detroit/Boston in the ECF. Granted as people said, no one knew he was going to be THIS good.

    Calderon amazing today, good to see him capitalize his opportunities and drive MORE to the rim instead of holding out, that made him more of a threat as people would start to respect his driving abilities opening up his also smooth jump shot, couple of steals as well I believe.

    Bosh… just aggressive in the late end, personally I still think he’s taking a tad more jump shots than he should. Obviously we see time and time again, many teams will find it extremely hard to contain a player like Bosh, Portland, Knicks all had no answer for the guy.

    Good game.

  6. Johnn19 said

    What Kapono needs is Calderon back on the second unit. BC must find a rent a PG who can create/score till TJ returns. Dmart & Dixon NFG.

    Mitchell went with Delfino for his defense on Roy etc with Jose, at the expense of rebounding help by Rasho/Andrea. It helped control Roy, but they gave up a lot of rbs.

    Fantastic game by Chris, Jose, AP. Hope they have some energy left for Detroit. Raptors have their own Big 3.

  7. SAMisCOY said

    Great analysis arsenalist!

    Portland will be a wicked team in the future. About the time Tim Duncan slows down a little or starts getting hampered by injuries, is probably when this Blazers team will become the new Western elite.

    Really bad officiating yet AGAIN! I know it was an exciting game, but this Cleveland Lebronage is just ridiculous when we’re getting shafted at HOME!

    As I keep telling all the doubters, Jose CAN go to the basket. Sam just has to remind Jose that it’s OKAY to do it. I also thought that keeping him and Bosh in the game was a no brainer, but we REALLY need a quality back up to save him some minutes/wear and tear.

    I am officially OFF supporting Bargs until such time as he can show some consistency on both end of the floor. I wonder if Memphis would get him for Gasol (yeah, the salaries don’t match). Or Channing Frye?

    Another solid game for AP! Delfino is easily becoming my choice for THE 6th man. Hump needs more minutes in rebounding situations. Was it my imagination or did we play a long stretch when Bosh/Moon/Delfino was our undersized front court?

  8. john said

    It was a great win for the Raps. Not only the starting line up brought the best but not to forget the bench as well

    Sorry about Arsenal

  9. arsenalist said

    john, you got to show your face more often around here, especially on days when Delfino plays like shit. I mean the guy’s a good player, no doubt about that but he has games where he just continues to do dumb shit like exclusively take step-back threes in transition. That is not cool.

  10. TimeIntact said

    Bargnani had a nice game today without a doubt. I LOVED seeing Bosh drive to the hoop time after time even though he wasn’t able to finish a lot of times. Then that one last drive finally in the first OT I think where he put it up among 3 Blazers and fell, and the ball bounced around and FINALLY went in was a great example of hard work paying off. And Calderon’s gutsy 3-point attempt…wow.

  11. MoonMan said

    Thanks for the Love to the Jamario site. Great analysis and break down of yesterdays game.
    Raps got lucky but definatly grew as a team. This was a match they needed to win.

  12. Raps Fan said

    bosh seems to shoot more earlier in the game, when he is fresher than later on. however, he does work hard, but he is 23, and should be able to work hard. iverson is 32, and logs 42 minutes a game. no reason for bosh to be getting tired with 38-40 minutes.

    boxing out is the reason the raptors don’t grab rebounds. they absolutely suck at it. bosh too, but he is long, and can out-jump most raptors.

    i was waiting for mitchell to make a stupid substitution in the 4th onwards, but he seemed to realize that any change would cost the raptors the game.

    good call on kapono playing the same side as bosh. that should give him a couple more looks a game. now we need to address the second unit pg situation. hopefully tj comes back for that, and plays at a high level.

    bargnani…i just feel he needs a bit more hand holding. he doesn’t look comfortable, but keeps getting put in the same situation game after game. then on every 8th game, he has a good one. he wont grow that way, but i have no suggestions on what to do. he needs to be taken off the starting lineup asap though, it isn’t the right place for him.

  13. SAMisCOY said

    Raps Fan> true, and I don’t know if the hard-nosed way he treats Jamario would work on Bargs. Didn’t work for VC or Skip.

    I wrote a paragraph on how Skip was used terribly here, but decided against it. Sam had that mentality to take to task vets and youngins alike, forgetting that he was in the NBA and rules differ from STAR to 12th man.

  14. Birdman said

    David Moro:
    “He’s not getting any better than he already is, though. What you see is what you get (which is plenty good).”

    Are you KIDDING ME?? With such an improvement from year 1 to 2, how can you bet against him getting even better? Sure he’s not overwhelming on the defensive end (steals/blocks are poor for his position and size) but man can that dude create offense. Some respect please!

    Raps Fan:
    Totally agree about sending Bargnani to the bench. Maybe he’s feeling too much pressure as part of the starting 5. It may help him relax if he’s matched up with the opponents’ second units. Of course, the issue with that is finding a second string PG to help him find good looks until TJ is back.

    Great post. I think you mean Darrick Martin’s Big Balls Dance instead of Darrick Murray? I think you’ve made that error before haha. What’s the deal with Martin? His career NBA stats are so mediocre, and why isn’t he an assistant coach yet? Free up that roster spot and pick up a rebounder!!

  15. Crank said

    RapsFan comment #5. See nolagunner’s comment about Bosh pacing himself. He can’t drive every single time, that’s an unrealistic expectation of him because he’s also the most active player defensively for us.

    In other news, Andrea Bargnani still sucks ass. Nobody even brings it up anymore though, he’s quickly falling into the category of Kandi and Kwame.

  16. PsychicSpy said

    The idea of trading Bargs for a proven starter like Gasol is long gone. We can ONLY trade our “problem” Bargs for someone else’s “problem”. Bargs value has fallen to roughly the level of Noah… who’s biggest “problem” seems to be an overly competitive nature… something Bargs has surgically removed along with his appendix.

    Also… Joey is probably just being showcased for a trade. BC does not build teams with pieces like Graham.
    Bye-bye Joey.

  17. Raps Fan said

    id trade bargnani for noah, without hesitating. noah is a proven winner (less people win an ncaa championship than nba championship, and noah has two!).

    martin is here for the rest of the season, the sooner we accept that, the sooner the healing can start.

    what do we really expect trading joey will land us? seriously?

    i agree with birdman, roy is just going to get better. he is wade like in game/ability/heart. scary.

  18. PsychicSpy said

    RapsFan: Since you agree… Bargs for Noah+filler. Noah is a proven leader… that’s being told to shut up and “act like a rook”. He could be Camby Lite in a few years.

    And if BC turned Hoffa into Hump… I’m sure that some GM out there has seen a lot of Good Joey.

  19. arsenalist said

    Oh man, PsyhcicSpy and Raps Fan, would you seriously trade Bargnani for Noah? Is this originating from this RealGM thread:

    If we have to do trade Bargnani, we should wait for his value to go a little north before shipping him off. I don’t think trading a player when he’s worth nothing is a good idea, it’s like trading in stocks. You wait for them to rise before selling.

    Assuming a trade is inevitable, we should consider that there is a chance that Bargnani will improve and become a better player than he is today, I say we wait until that day arrives (hopefully by trading deadline next year or in the off-season) and then get something valuable for him.

    Plus, BC will never trade Bargnani, it would amount to eating the biggest crow ever.

    @Birdman: Thanks for pointing out the mistake. I do that a lot.

  20. PapiJulio said

    Ahhh… It’s good to be a Raptors Fan today!

    Way to step up at the end after ‘Shitting the Bed’ in the 4th. Our team showed some maturity by buckling down in OT not letting this one slip away. We were lead when it mattered.


    People are going to forever criticize Bosh. Rebounds, Boxing Out, Game Face, Drives, Shooting, Going the Charity Strip. “Bosh, why didn’t you bake me a cake in the 4th???” What more do Raptors fans expect? When the Raps aren’t rebounding Bosh has to spend his energy boxing out & grabbing boards. I mean, he was moving players out to the free throw line on some box outs. !!Awesome!! He’s too valuable to waste energy doing things other teammates should be doing! Chris was spent in the interview after the game. Someone please help our star!

    El Mago will learn to Box Out. El Mago will learn Defense. He has flashes of brilliance. All the haters can keep hating. Once he learns Defense he’ll go back to developing his outside shot. Which will drawing the opposing center out to 3-point land, freeing up the post for Bosh OR a quick pump fake and El Mago is driving the net for his big dunks people forget he does when he’s charged up! One day it will click with El Mago.

    Non ascolti il EL Mago della gente. Dimostri la gente errata!!

  21. PsychicSpy said

    Arsenalist, actually I missed that thread. But that thread does not have a SINGLE worthwhile post… not a single piece of worthwhile information… and is a great example of the near total decline of RealGM in the last 12 months. But it’s worth iy just for RJC’s idiotic “threat” to “leave the board”.

    I’m old enough to understand that RJC, and even HP, are “intelligent idiots” who think they are geniuses. Geniuses SIMPLIFY things by thinking outside the box… “intelligent idiots” split a hair into a 1000 pieces as a form of mental masturbation.

    OK… maybe Noah is all wrong… but would Chicago even do the trade?

    My biggest problem with Bargs is that he has ZERO leadership skills. This CANNOT be taught. It’s a TALENT like rebounding is a talent… just like soccer/hockey goal-scoring is a talent. It depends on ** primal vector analysis ** that CANNOT BE TAUGHT. I know… because I was a natural goal scorer in soccer… and it CANNOT BE TAUGHT. I was a tournament level tennis player in high school… and the killer instinct in tennis CANNOT BE TAUGHT.

    Bargs Year Two contribution is ZERO or even negative. I would not trust ANY Italian to make an objective assessment of Andrea. Any BC/Maurizio assessment at this point is meaningless. Right now… the Raps are a better team with Bargs in a suit. Bargs future development is a near total crapshoot. The idea that his value will go up someday… is also highly debatable. Sam would prefer to not play Bargs at all.

    The reason that getting rid of Bargs should be openly discussed… is because his greatest potential is to
    turn the Raptors into a 0.550 threadmill team. That’s the nightmare scenario.

  22. arsenalist said

    Mental masturbation, that is gold.

    Why are you looking for leadership skills from Bargnani? I don’t care if he has leadership skills, there’ve been plenty of great players that have very little leadership skills (Malone, Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson etc.) so that’s not my concern at all. I’ll happily settle for 15 points and 8 rebounds for now and that can happen if he decides to a)play aggressive b) play smart and c) play hard. I’m not ready to give up on Bargnani just yet but that doesn’t mean I’m a fan of him, as I’ve said before I’d rather have taken Gay.

    You’re probably right that Italians won’t be able to evaluate him because of natural bias and I’ll go as far as saying that Bargnani was our #1 choice from the day we won the lottery because of Maurizio Gherardini. I haven’t looked this up but I’m pretty sure that a #1 pick hasn’t ever been traded in his second year and that’s partly because of embarrassment and also because it’s a little early to give up on a player. I say the Raptors stick with him this year, see how he develops, give him specialized coaching in the off-season and if the results don’t change next year, consider trading him.

    Are the Raptors a better team without Bargnani right now? I don’t know, he’s not contributing much so it’s hard to debate you on that point and the only thing I can say is that we need to lower our expectations of him. His development has been very slow but will hopefully speed up (fingers crossed) and he’ll start contributing. But I’m 100% sure that Bargnani is more deserving of a roster spot than Murray. And let’s put things in perspective here, he’s our #1 pick and we HAVE to stick by him, there’s not even a choice given its his second year. Sure, we can openly talk about getting rid of Bargnani but it’s just not going to happen this year and we need to accept that.

    As for RealGM going to the shits, the number of quality threads have gone down considerably with supersub15 regurgitating stats, bipolar threads after each loss, saturn28, BNT, trolls, people hating on Harry Palmer etc. etc. The most sane poster there is still TheDoctor (formerly SwirskyFan), I hope to have him on a podcast in the next few weeks.

  23. PapiJulio said

    Wow, PsychicSpy did Bargnani poo in your Corn Flakes?? I’ve been know to school people many different sprots. The hardest thing I find is learning the defense to each sport. You have understand how the entire game is played and it’s a painful learning experence. But everytime you get schooled you take notes and pretty soon you got enough notes to understand all the little points to the game. Obviously Bargnani is like a deer in headlights when it comes to defence in the NBA American game style vs the European Game, that’s nowhere as physical. I know it’s the 2nd year. I expected more, but I think Sam Mitchel is Awesome at giving people the chance to step up and be a man. The best way to learn is to be throw in to the fire. It forces you to do learn because you have no choice. Tough love Sam, tough love!!!

  24. Raps Fan said

    i mentally masterbated most of my life, thanks for giving me a title to describe my…problem? whatever, its fun…

    i 100% agree with psychicspy. bargnani does not exhibit leadership skills. you really can’t teach that. as far as trading him for noah, i do that based strictly on things that are happening now. noah has a lot of things this team lacks (hustle, grit/heart – although we exhibited a lot of that last night), and the dude is a champion. calderon and garbo are champions, but we need more.

    upside…bargnani has much more than noah, i am not disputing that at all. also i am not disputing expectations, they are high. my issue is that he isn’t even at the same level as last seaason. what the hell happened from last season that he went down the shitter? i’m sure mitchell isn’t treating the pansy any differently, his role has increased in scope, but he didn’t show signs that he wouldn’t be able to step up with a bigger role. that test (can’t remember the name) he scored so highly on, should have been able to assess all of this, no?

    as far as malone, ewing and hakeem not showing leadership…i really think you are off on that one dude. all three of those guys were serious leaders (although robinson needed duncan).

  25. arsenalist said

    Malone a leader? Stockton was the man on those Jazz teams. The language thing kept Hakeem from being a great leader and I might be off on Ewing. Those guys led by example rather than rallying the locker room together and fist-pumping and getting in people’s faces. Anyway, I might be off because I’m not in the locker room.

    But we’re getting sidetracked. To me Noah is a more of a hustler than a truly talented player or someone with gifted athletic or physical attributes. I think it’s kinda insane actually to make a trade like that this early, despite Bargnani’s shit season.

    Raps Fan, I can explain “what the hell happened from last season that he went down the shitter?”. The scouting reports caught up with him and now the ball is in his court to make the adjustments, so far he hasn’t. Pure and simple. Bargnani thought that playing at last year’s level was good enough but as Smitch pointed out in his interview about Bargs, “you have to get better at the things you’re great at”. Sounds kinda cliche but it’s true when it comes to younger players because this league is all about adjustments and people trying to take away your comfort zone. Bargnani needs to adjust and hopefully for everybody’s sakes he steps it up and works harder, plays better and gains confidence.

  26. Red Rebounder said

    Psychic, would you make a 1-for-1 Noah for Bargnani trade today assuming salaries are OK?

  27. Crank said

    Psychic better not answer yes because as much as I think Bargnani is a dud, now is not the right time to do this. And for Noah?? I think we might even get Dalembert if we throw in Graham + 2nd rounder (pending salaries of course).

  28. SAMisCOY said

    Btw, does anyone know if we have a “big man” coach? I know we had a shooting coach (last year?), and Alex English was a pretty good shooter in his day.

    Would a “big man” coach help (or does Rasho perform double as this for the team)? I’d like to see Bill Laimbeer coach Bargs :) And this is semi-serious, as the 2 are nowhere near the same player :) (okay, it’s probably more fantasy than anything)

  29. arsenalist said

    SAM, there’s talk about Bargnani headed to Pete Newell’s big man camp:

    As for a specialized big man coach, nope, we don’t have any.

  30. PapiJulio said

    Where is this Noah for Bargnani justification?? I didn’t want to respond to it, but I’d like to put a fork in because it’s done! Lets not for get about all the 3-pointers Flordia made just to advance. Live by the 3 die by the 3. Noah’s scrappy and plays with his heart on his sleeve. He was just surronded by the right players that suck around for the second year with him. I think luck had something to do with Flordia wins. But that’s college ball. Run it & gun it! Noah has a lot of growning up to do. He still acts like a high school kid. Bargnani is way more mature and has more of an upside for sure.

    Bargnani the only way to stop the ‘Haters’ is to simple. Box Out. Your 7′. Lets moves somebodies around! We need ya big guy!!!!

  31. SAMisCOY said

    arsenalist > thanks! good read. I hope it helps Bargs. Btw, somewhat a “fantasy” discussion, but are there any old time centers (aside from Pete Newell)out there who could potentially be a decent “big man coach” for Bargs (similar style, etc.)? I figure as a number one pick who is getting a lot of chances, shouldn’t the organization be pulling out all the stops to get him more focused? (aside from throwing him constantly into the game). Heck, maybe even seeing a sports psych?

    No, this doesn’t mean I’ve jumped back on the wagon, I’m just trying to be pragmatic about the situation. Btw, would Bargs thrive under “Nellie Ball”?

  32. PsychicSpy said

    Thanks for all the intelligent, civil discussion.

    OK… I’ll drop the BUST talk for 5 years, but not one day longer. Noah’s not a BUST after 30 games (the ONLY Bull with a positive +/- and 4th in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds/48 min). And Bargs will be going to Big Man Summer Camp this year. Maybe he’ll even get laid.

    Nice thread. 32 comments!!

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