Arsenalist

The Toronto Raptors Blog with an Arsenal touch

Calderukic time + Defending Colangelo + Second round draft history

Posted by Arsenalist on July 1, 2008

Tuesday marks the first day of free agency and the Raptors have but one call to make. It’s to Jose Calderon offering him at least $40 million over 5 years. I suspect this deal to get done fairly quickly, after all Bryan Colangelo doesn’t trade Ford without having some assurance that Calderon’s demands aren’t too extravagant to not be met. We’ll end up paying Jose a lot of money and then proceed to bitch about it if/when he gets burned out by Mitchell who’ll be forced to play him 37 minutes a game because we won’t acquire a backup PG and/or if Ukic isn’t able to fill in adequately . Here’s hoping Calderon’s performances stay at least on par and his defense improves enough so that Bosh/O’Neal don’t spend their time clogging lanes left open by Jose.

There are also unconfirmed reports that Roko Ukic has signed a two year contract with the Raptors. It only makes sense. I figure we’ll see something more official in the next couple days.

Update: Calderon staying according to his website, no numbers yet:

“Early this morning, through my agents, I reached a preliminary agreement with the Toronto Raptors. I want to thank Bryan Colangelo, Maurizio Gherardini, Sam Mitchell and all of the Raptors family for the confidence that they have placed in me. I am sure that together we are going to achieve big things in the future.”

Add Kelly Dwyer to the Bryan Colangelo fanboy list. He’s very irked that two Toronto newspapers had the audacity to second-guess Colangelo’s wheelings and dealing of the past couple years and suggest that Colangelo could very well be an average NBA GM (this of course set off khandor). I wonder how long Colangelo will milk that division title which we happened to win the year the Atlantic was part of the NBDL. The article also calls for a Leave Britney BC Alone video.

Dwyer does bring a good point up, it’s up to Sam Mitchell to use Jermaine O’Neal effective and if he can’t, the Raptors should eat the rest of Mitchell’s contract and get themselves a coach that knows how to use what he’s given. The Raptors have to make sure that Jermaine O’Neal’s offensive game complements Bosh and doesn’t take anything away from it. Bosh should never be starved of shots and O’Neal’s role should be well-defined enough so that combined with Bosh they can create a threat which will open up the rest of our offense, not create two black holes. Last season’s player utilization was hard to watch with the sub patters of Kapono, Bargnani, Humphries and Rasho all open for criticism. Not to mention how Sam got away with Kapono hitting only three threes in two months. Ugh, disgusting. Colangelo will not stand for anything similar with Jermaine O’Neal since he’s on a short two year contract in which results are expected.

Ladies and gentleman, I present to you the Toronto Raptors second round draft history:

1995, #35 – Jimmy King, Michigan
1998, #47 – Tyson Wheeler, Rhode Island
1999, #46 – DeeAndre Hulett, USBL
2003, #52 – Remon Van de Hare, FC Barcelona
2004, #40 – Albert Miralles, Spain
2005, #41 – Roko Ukic, Croatia
2005, #58 – Uros Slokar, Slovenia
2006, #35 – PJ Tucker, Texas
2008, #41 – Nathan Jawai, Australia

Two things to point out, the only good piece that ever came out of this lot is Roko Ukic and we have Rob Babcock to thank for that one. As you can see, expectations should be very low for anything we pick up in the second round so there’s no disappointment in what we got. The annoyance of this pick isn’t in the pick itself but in the fact that CDR – an athletic defensive minded SF – was taken right before us. The Raptors weren’t proactive enough in trying to get something out of this draft and failed to even partially address a very obvious need – athleticism.

Ron Artest is not opting out of his contract with the Kings. Ron Ron says the Kings have “been there for me”. How very romantic. The real reason of course is that he knows no team will pay him more than the $8M he’s making now and he doesn’t want to play for a contender for less money. I mean, if the Kings were “there” for you, why not just outright say you won’t be opting out at the end of the season. These athletes really piss me off sometime. Emotions aside, when the season ended I wanted the Raptors to acquire Ron Artest in a trade and draft Brandon Rush. 0-2 there.

The Wizards resigned Antawn Jamison for 4yrs/50m which is fair market value for him. Applause for Ernie Grunfeld. Wait a minute though, he’s talking about giving Gilbert Arenas a 100 million dollar contract which will ensure that the Wizards never get past the second round for the next decade. If ever there was an opportunity to sign-and-trade somebody, this is it. If Grunfeld actually gives him the deal after he blackmailed the Wizards by threatening to leave unless Jamison got his contract, it’ll show how owners and GMs are absolute slaves to players. Arenas single-handedly lost the Cleveland series and he gets rewarded with a deal. Blah!

Now if you read this space fairly regularly you must know what I think of those imbeciles over at The Bleacher Report. This time their “analysis” of our draft has this to say:

The addition of Jermaine O’Neal is either going to be a hit or miss for the Toronto Raptors. In my opinion the Raptors got the worse end of this trade. Although they got better in size including the addition of Roy Hibbert they got nothing at the guard position.

Piss off. Seriously. Stop writing and sell that domain to a company selling bleachers.

Stuck in Vancouver till Thursday night. Watching American History X again, sick movie. Might give TauEpsilonNu’s idea a second thought.

27 Responses to “Calderukic time + Defending Colangelo + Second round draft history”

  1. Red Rebounder said

    It’s been a long time since I posted.

    Re: Nathan Jawai

    Very surprised at this pick because we were scouting heavily in Europe and holding pre-draft camps regularly so this pick didn’t make sense. Its like they decided last minute they’d pick him. The Nets pinching CDR before us hurt but we still could’ve picked Walker. When CDR fell to the second round BC should’ve swung something to give us a shot at him.

    Re: JO Trade

    All depends on health and Mitchell. If Mitchell just leaves him out to freestyle like he did with Bosh by running the pnr with Calderon and JO and think its going to do anything, he should be canned. This trade requires innovation from Mitchell and spacing from the Raptors so JO/Bosh don’t clash. Big task, not sure if Smitch can do it.

    Re: Giving up #17

    Hibbert will be a solid player. His footwork isn’t there but it’ll come, he’s got size and plays hard. He’s also very intelligent. Dorsey is no doubt gonna be a beast on the glass and a future defensive first/second team player. Houston FTW for getting him.

    Re: Calderon

    We’ll overpay him but we don’t have a choice. His minutes need to be somewhere between 30 and 32 or he’ll run out of gas in March. He’s well conditioned but liable to get into shooting slumps when he plays too much. It’ll be interesting to see what not having to look over the shoulder will do for him. Either he’ll become a truly great player or he’ll regress but even then he’ll be an above-average point.

  2. khandor said

    Arsenalist,

    ============================
    re: Add Kelly Dwyer to the Bryan Colangelo fanboy list. He’s very irked that two Toronto newspapers had the audacity to second-guess Colangelo’s wheelings and dealing of the past couple years and suggest that Colangelo could very well be an average NBA GM (this of course set off khandor). I wonder how long Colangelo will milk that division title which we happened to win the year the Atlantic was part of the NBDL. The article also calls for a Leave Britney BC Alone video.
    ============================

    Actually, what precipatated a specific response from me was KD’s observation that,

    “This team, as presently constructed and with all the qualifiers accounted for, can top 50 wins. At least.”

    as I:

    1) Agree with this possibility;
    2) Disagree with this probability;
    3) Disagree that this occurrence, should it happen during the 2008-2009 season, is the ‘Best Way Possible’ to create a High Calibre franchise in Toronto long term;
    4) Disagree that this occurrence represents yet another brilliant step forward in the life of the Raptors’ franchise under the direction of Bryan Colangelo and MLSE.

    What I can tell you first-hand, re: KD’s ‘50 win prognostication’ for the 2008-2009 Toronto Raptors:

    * Given that their “Pythagorean Win Prediction Total for the 2008-2009 season” stands at 49.28-50.43 (depending on the exponent used)

    * If I was coaching this team, as currently constructed, and with all qualifiers in effect … it WOULD garner, at least, 50 W’s next season, as well.

    Alas, THAT IS NOT THE PRESENT SITUATION, IN TORONTO, is it?

    And, in isolation, simply does NOT reflect accurately where this franchise was poised to go when Bryan Colangelo assumed full control of the team (Feb/2006); what’s happened in Toronto since that time; and, where it’s likely headed (long term) following the 2008-2009 season, relative to the elite level teams in the NBA.

    Have a terrific Canada Day, one and all!

  3. fluxland said

    I was watching A.H.X. last night was well. Great minds again Arse!!

    Oh so now Jose is not the man? Were you people not crying for TJ to be beheaded at the ACC so Jose can bring on his mastery and glory to save the Raps? I can see people have already started opening the doors to S.M is a c**t that cannot coach and all and every faults with this team will rest on him. UNREAL!!!

    Lots of PGs and players make up for their coaches sucking by doing their own thing on the court. They ignore the offense and playcalling and do what they think is best. Why can’t we put this whole thing on Jose? He demanded for TJ to be traded..he stated he sacrificed for the team last year and expected to be paid for it – which he will. He believes he is a championship caliber PG. Why are we not going to demand that he now delivers on the image of the PG he paint to be? Why are we already blaming everyone else if/WHEN this team fails? ACCOUNTABILITY PEOPLE. This guy needs to be held accountable waaay more the anyone else this upcoming season. Not, BC, not SM, not CB4, not JO… no one else but Jose. If he’s soo great he doesn’t need Sam to have a fancy playbook. He should not have to be told anything about anything. I think Jose should be player/coach next year. Let’s give Sam the year off so he can work on his golf game. Will give Jose that portion of his contract..save us the time to bitch about Sam and Jose can bring the LOT to the ACC next year. All in in favour say JOSE!!

    I’m guessing Jose asks for Sam to be fired by November 3. This lil fucker has managed to wrap everyone around his finger and will never do wrong in anyone’s eyes. And for what? What the F has he done that so special while with the Raps.. NADA! That’s what.

  4. FAQ said

    ^^^ Bitter bitter bitter … JC has provided consistent performance like a professional bballer should … in contrast TJ became an immature headcase who only confused all the other Rap players on the floor. Sure TJ scored a lot, but you can bet that it was Sam who put the knife into him when BC asked him which PG he preferred to have and work with. Jose Jose Jose … said Sam.

    TJ was just a high school mentality ball hog PG .. and when he didn’t have the ball in his hands, the Raptors only had 4 players on the floor on offense. When TJ got the ball, the other 4 players just stood there waiting for TJ to make his solo move. That was TJ, and if you couldn’t see that or overlooked it … well that says a lot about you, because others saw that …. while JC provided solid PG play that the other players could work off … sooo obvious ..!!!!

  5. RaptorsFan said

    Man, you really hate that Bleachers Report don’t you? :p

    Also one thing, people criticized CDR because of his LACK of athleticism, he doesn’t seem to have that much in him. But by all means, I think this guy is going to be a solid defender and a VERY smart and crafty scorer in the paint.

    Going to be forced to watch those cunty Nets just to watch CDR.

  6. masterjuddi said

    Atlantic Divison part of the NBDL. funny statement to make. The AD wasnt the best division when the Raps won, but they still won it and you cant argue with results or take it away from BC and the Raps.
    the raps do suck in the draft 1st or 2nd. Roko signing a contract makes me feel better, now we need a mid level 3 and I like Pietrus.
    If the raps are going to be successful (50 + would be a stretch, but not out of reach) then guys like Bargs and Hump need to provide good D, energy, scoring and rebounding off the bench. Hump can play D, put back O boards and rebound, Bargs may be more comfortable playing behind Bosh and Oneil, but we need him to have some scoring touch with his 20 mpg.

  7. masterjuddi said

    I just read your remark about the Bleacher “The addition of JO is either going to be a hit or miss for the Raptors. In my opinion the Raptors got the worse end of this trade. Although they got better in size including the addition of Roy Hibbert they got nothing at the guard position.”
    so they got size including the addition of Hibbert? the same Hibbert that was part of the Pacer deal? No shite they didnt get better at the guard position…they traded for a PF/C

  8. fluxland said

    FUK… glad you are only focusing on TJs game after he came back from injury while completely forgetting anything beforehand. And even then, TJ was doing that cuz when he did pass the ball it was getting dropped, overturned and guys were shooting bricks.

    I see clearly what they were both doing.. make no mistake about it. This comes down to preference. And if you prefer a guy who can’t play D, plays for 4and1/2 qs, chokes in the clutch, can’t take over a game cuz he has no go to move and can’t create his own shot.. ENJOY.

    Again, I ask – What has Jose done to deserve all this praise and this fat ass contract beside do his job when called upon? Nothing in the playoffs that I recall. Nothing but keep a good A2TO ratio (not hard to do when you take little risk). His numbers are not off the chats. He’s done nothing but create a huge buzz around his potential… and now he’s gonna get paid.. based on potential. FAAAANTASTIC!!!

  9. Arsenalist said

    @RaptorsFan: Perimeter D baby, that’s what CDR brings. I don’t care in what form he brings it (good defender vs. good athlete) but he brings it. He’s not an athlete in the sense that he can dunk over people but he’s athletic enough to move well laterally and has good wingspan and reach to bother SFs and can develop the strength to contend in the post. That’s all you can ask for.

    @masterjuddi:

    “If the raps are going to be successful (50 + would be a stretch, but not out of reach) then guys like Bargs and Hump need to provide good D, energy, scoring and rebounding off the bench. Hump can play D, put back O boards and rebound, Bargs may be more comfortable playing behind Bosh and Oneil, but we need him to have some scoring touch with his 20 mpg.”

    This is very true but ask yourself what the chances of this actually happening are? Is Mitchell good enough to manage his roster to produce this kind of output? I doubt it, we’re not nearly disciplined enough and our team roles are not well-defined enough for this to work. Fingers crossed though.

    @flux/faq: The one thing I’m looking forward to the most next season is the TJ watch. It will be soooooo much fun. I’m almost thinking of having a separate page dedicated to that where I track Jose and TJ’s games.

    @khandor: I don’t see this team winning 50 games in a strong East and for us to even have a shot at that our reserves and starters need to be playing at peak efficiency for 80% of the season (as masterjuddi said) which has a low chance of happening.

  10. fluxland said

    Arsenalist.. I am looking forward to that even more then you. Believe me!

    Also, that Brit video “thing” was scary. Context you used in was funny.. but in itself was scary.

    Re: AgentZero.. I’m not a huge fan of his either, but appreciate the clutch skill and ability to take over games. Does he get any slack in that Cavs series due to injury? That was not 100% Gil there.

  11. Could Be Interesting said

    Lets RECAP FLUXBOY:

    PG’s should do what they think is right and not what the coach tells him. RIIIIIIIIIIGHT…

    Jose is second string PG. Just look at the poor job he did running the team when TJ was injured. RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT…

    A low ATR is easy. RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT…

    JOSE is a selfish crybaby. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT…

    TJ is going to be the next CP3. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT…

    FLUXLAND smokes way too much GREEN! RIGHT.

  12. Arsenalist said

    BTW, Calderon has signed according to his website, updated the post with a link and a quote. No figures yet.

  13. fluxland said

    “should” – when did I say should? You have comprehension issues. Read again, son. The point was that PGs that believe their coach sucks decided to take over.

    Again – comprehension. Where did I say he was a second string PG? Oh yes let’s give the guy the Nobel Peace Prize for DOING HIS FREAKING job while the starter was out. RIIIIIGHT!!!!

    Jose IS a selfish crybaby. Wheaaaaa, I can’t play with TJ (his words not mine). Wheaaaaaa, I sacrificed for the team I hope they PAY me back. Wheaaaaa, I want to be the started.

    What’s the difference btw Jose and TJ? They both wanted the same thing and were no willing to compromise. But Jose is a saint cuz ppl prefer his style of play.

    NO ONE is going to be the next CP3!!

    Could Be Intersting failed grade 4 or is enrolled in Special Ed. cuz clearly he doesn’t comprehend what he reads.
    —-
    You know this whole TJ/Jose drams sort of reminds me of Kobe&Shaq. Two alphas who couldn’t co-exist cuz they both wanted to be the MAN. And we all know how that turned out.. thus far.

    Bottom line Jose got his wish… I for one want him to now deliver. Cuz I will bet a 100 bucks Bosh Sam and even JO would play with TJ before Jose any day of the week.

  14. Could Be Interesting said

    LMAO!

    Flux are you fucking kidding me? Really stop blowing TJ already! Dude will never be the same. PERIOD!

    When BC pulled the trade for TJ I was completely supportive cause I thought Charlie V didn’t have the mental fortitude/desire to be a very good player in this league. I really enjoyed watching TJ play and would have agreed he was a better PG a year ago. The reality he has had a second serious neck injury. Once bitten, twice shy (in the lane). Remember it was BC who had the balls to bring him here. I think he traded him for a (good) reason. Otherwise he could have commanded A LOT more for Jose on the open market than TJ. Ever wonder why that is?

    Cheers

  15. fluxland said

    Look, I’m not blowing anyone. I have the same issues with TJ as everyone else but don’t go overboard with them. Just like people should not go overboard with the Jose positives.

    Ford is not shy of the lane, IMO. He drove plenty after coming back.

    Jose is back and TJ is not.. (amongst other reasons) cuz of money. Fans like yourself will tune in, go to more games and buy more paraphernalia with Jose on board. Not sure how often you come here but there were plenty of people who were swearing off this team if TJ is back and Jose is not the starter. Not to mention the threats BC must have got form the season ticket holders. MONEY IS KING and agenda issue numero uno. Don’t forget that.

  16. Arsenalist said

    I think we should reserve judgment of how good/great/mediocre Calderon will be until he has a full season of starter responsibility. I think last season he was scouted very heavily and we’ll see the effects of that this year and its up to Jose to adjust by a) upping his defense b) consistently hitting that mid-range jumper and c) taking even more advantage of that high screen and penetrating to create.

    Much like how Bargnani was scouted his first year to a degree that he was rendered much less significant in his second, I think Jose will face those challenges this year. He however has the mental toughness and dedication to overcome scouts unlike Bargnani.

    Could Be Interesting – I disagree that TJ eased off on his aggressiveness post-injury, I just didn’t see enough examples of this. I think you’re off there. At the same time I agree that TJ’s time was done here and that Jose’s the PG for this team because of the personnel on the squad and the fact that he’s shown more poise in the fourth quarter than TJ.

    If TJ can continue to improve his mid-range game (like he did last year), he’ll be a very dangerous PG assuming he stays healthy. I wouldn’t compare him to CP3 yet but a year or two of great coaching can make him a Top 3 PG in this league. There’s no doubt he has the skill, its a question of attitude and decision-making, both of which are fixable.

  17. fluxland said

    I agree Arsenalist. I just prefer to be pessimistic and pleasantly surprised as opposed to get my hopes up and then spitting on the guy when he doesn’t perform like people envisioned, as most do.

    Co-sign TJ. It’s funny how fast people forget what this guy is capable of. Then again.. maybe they only started paying attention when he got to the Raps.

  18. FAQ said

    Tentative Raptor roster for 2008-09?:

    PG — Jose/Ukic(?)
    SG — AP/Adams/Delfino(?)
    SF — Moon/Kapono/Graham
    PF — Bosh/Bargs
    C — JO/Jawai/Hump

    Lots of flexibility with several players at different positions so we could see both Bosh and Bargs on the floor together. JO and Jawai would represent mainly defensive rebounding centres and low scoring. If Delfino leaves that could be a potential problem area.

    Entertaining but not championship caliber ……

  19. masterjuddi said

    @Aresenalist
    if bargs and Hump do succeed then the raps will contend and win 50+. I think as a fan you need to be optimistic and hope that your #1 overall pick comes into form. I agree with you on the Smitch not getting these guys to play. THe raps should hire Toni Kukoc to mentor Bargs, much like he did Bogut.
    @fluxland. I dont know how you could bet money on JO and Bosh playing with TJ instead of Jose. JOse passes more and shoots a higher percentage, which means he takes better shots. TJ plays with a chip on his shoulder, which sometimes results in great ball, but more often then not it results in “one and done.” Two guys that like the ball in their hands in the post, dont want TJ…they want Jose

  20. fluxland said

    Those same two guys don’t want the ball in the post all the time. Plus, neither is a great post player anyway. I clearly remember Jose forcing the ball to Bosh when he didn’t want it during numerous games. I just think TJ had a better feel for what and when Bosh wanted (it). And Bosh has stated numerous times that it took him a long time to like Jose and his style of play. I’m saying…if JO and Bosh are playing pick up ball.. they choose TJ over Jose 10 times out of 10.

  21. Could Be Interesting said

    TJ and Calderon will earn similar money. As for your attendance implication, Raps fans want to see a competitive team that goes beyond ‘one and done’. Whether the PG was Jose or TJ wouldn’t matter if the Raps were putting up W’s. I know a number of season ticket holders. The post game conversation always came down to boards and toughness. Your not going to go deep in any sport with scoring alone, especially in the playoffs.

    Ars, if you watch TJ’s finishing tendencies and decision making in the lane pre and post injury you will in fact notice a change. Yes he did still drive the lane, but in my opinion, I observed a certain hesitancy. Specifically, he was always VERY aware (i.e. too careful) of who was around him and how they might choose to block his shot. It will be very interesting to see how TJ fares in Indiana. Specifically in light of the fact they are REBUILDING.

    Lets see if TJ is the PG you (still) say he is Fluxboy!

  22. fluxland said

    Will be interesting… I will be keeping a close eye on Indy, believe me.

    And you think the toughness issue has been addressed with TJ leaving while being replaced by Jose? I’ve brought this up before and khandor did today on his blog… what happens when Jose/JO get injured?

    Who’s exactly tough on this team? When TJ got rocked in ATL who did anything to back him up?

  23. masterjuddi said

    the raps are tougher for sure now that Jose is the starting pg, not because Jose is a tougher player then Tj, but because ONeil’s intown. the raps did or do lack toughness, but JO will bring some.
    Fluxland…I’m sick of hearing about “backing TJ up” when he was rocked. I understand that you need to protect your boys, but this isnt hockey and you cant leave the bench and throw down. just look at what happens in the nba when someone leaves the bench or goes after a player. ex Mello, Artest, Stoudamire etc.

  24. fluxland said

    cant or wont leave the bench? This wasn’t the playoffs.. the only person that FLEW off the bench was SM.

    Artest doesn’t count cuz he started a fight.

    Point is no one stood up for TJ. I realize not everyone shares this view and would react differently. But I just think you do it to show TJ you have his back no matter what. Again, I don’t expect everyone to understand. That entire Raps squad was made of UN peacekeepers.. so there is no real surprise there.

    Remember Nate R running and mixing it up?

    JO is tough? Really? The guy that missed 120 games plus over the last 4 years? I don’t think so. This team just got much much softer then it ever was. And when crunch time comes, unless this team has a huge lead..they will fold like a cheap tent. Who is the go to guy? Who’s gonna make musthave buckets when we need them? So many things people are not thinking about regarding this team. But hey we have our darling Jose and a semi bigtime name in JO. Yippppy!!! Get a jersey. Scream for pizza! OLE OLEOLEOLE!!!!

  25. khandor said

    masterjuddi,

    ===============================
    re: Fluxland…I’m sick of hearing about “backing TJ up” when he was rocked. I understand that you need to protect your boys, but this isnt hockey and you cant leave the bench and throw down. just look at what happens in the nba when someone leaves the bench or goes after a player. ex Mello, Artest, Stoudamire etc.
    ===============================

    You are wrong, in this regard.

    On an elite level team … when a key player gets fouled hard by an opponent … at least one (if not more) of his teammates MUST be prepared to respond in-kind, by committing a hard, tough, physical basketball play of his own, directed at the offending player … or, the agrieved team does not have the type or degree of toughness (physical, mental & emotional) necessary to get the job done in the NBA Playoffs. PERIOD.

    You’re right … it’s not the NHL but it is the same League where numerous men like Paul Silas, Jerry Lucas, Maurice Lucas, Kevin McHale, Michael Cooper, Dennis Rodman, Bill Laimbeer, Moses Malone, Shaquille O’Neal, Alonzo Mourning, Robert Horry, Kevin Garnett, etc., have been more willing to knock an opponent’s block off in order to win an NBA championship.

  26. fluxland said

    That’s what I am saying, khandor. Not many people understand that, it seems.

  27. FAQ said

    Okay, fluland … may we assume that you believe BC, Gherardini, Mitchell were all wrong to trade away TJ … and instead, Jose should have been traded off for JO ??

    If TJ blossoms into a kickass PG with the Pacers, that may or may not prove anybody was wrong, but it may help your indigent cause on this fine forum. We shall see … November ……..

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